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And here's dad, Bentley.
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The KC's 2014 health survey found that almost one in five Bulldogs die from heart failure. Although some Bulldogs do make it to old age, they are dead, on average, by the age of 6 - much the same as it's always been, despite better nutrition/vet care.
Interesting to see the changes in the breed since he 1950s. The dogs in this archive mostly have terrible fronts... but are longer-legged and kept leaner than today's show dog.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZJyacsPPio ... not much change in the life span from 60 hears ago then.
ReplyDeleteThanks for reminding me about that film... have added it to the post!
DeleteStill less nightmarish than the perv in the blue pleather pants with the rape rack and the comatose "stud."
ReplyDeletebreeding stands protect the bitch and the dog.. and most dogs during ejaculation look "comatose" especially during the last phase .. if you have had a dog ejaculate on your clothing you will appreciate the rubber pants. They are often worn by large animal vets as well for obvious reasons. Useful when delivering large animals at birth too.
Deletebestuvall, t'is only around a table spoon of the stuff, when a dog ejaculates and it is more of a pump action than a spray effect. A Bulldog probably has more liquids coming out of it's slobber deformed mouth, whilst trying to have sex, than comes out of it's penis. The way you're talking you're making it sound like an veritable tsunami when a dog pops his load. Lol
DeleteVery funny,bestuvall. What are you doing to your dogs, if you are getting their ejaculate all over you?
DeleteMost people visiting and working on farms wear water proof trousers (rubber pants), especially during the winter months, but not because we are worried about getting washed away in a tide of ejuculate.
Ejuculate is not much different than any other mucous from the body and can easily be removed with a damp cloth or a low temperature wash. lol
Is weird, because my dogs with normal skeletons, airways, GI tracts, social behavior, and dog junk, are robustly capable of dog sexytimes without a rack, pleather hazmat suits on bystanders, syringes, handjobs, or really any assistance beyond the services of a licensed driver to facilitate the assignation. No injuries. During a mating tie they sometimes both look as if they are mildly regretting their recent life decisions, but never "comatose."
DeleteAnd here also I've been flitting around my own farm and the farms of others (often others who own the dog who my bitch is visiting for unassisted procreative dog sex) in just jeans or Carhartts and neglecting to plasticoat myself as protection against the splooge showers that populate such places. Who knew?
It's even more horrifying, because those slutty free-standing dog-sex-having bitches go on to push live puppies out of their bodies without even any scalpels involved, and then they clean them off and nurse them and keep them warm and love them and bask in glory.
(Waits to hear that bitches don't love their babies, they exhibit instinctive hormone-mediated epimeletic behavior patterns. Or, you know, not. But the latter is totes okay, you can tube-feed them things and still get a winning specials dog out of it, and then it's back to the syringe and handjob -- onward!)
Haha, this post above is so much win xD
DeleteSomebody posted the baileyblue bulldogs, horrific and just for whose benefit because the dogs look absolutely defeated, might be an idea to upload some of the photographs, and like the photo above, prepare to be angry and disgusted with people who can do this to another living being.
ReplyDeleteI can see you are trying hard to shocking but epic fail to any real breeder who has long known that AI improves the gene pool by allowing semen to be shipped from dogs all over the world that are less related to the ones "around the corner" which if that happens those breeders are called names too. Looks like a good collection though. Hope they did a count for motility and numbers before the insemination. I hope you know that collecting a dog and using AI puts just as much stress on a dog as natural mating so natural or not the dog is still under the same "force of nature" . Have you ever collected a dog? LOL
ReplyDeleteBearing in mind that your remarks are usually contentious I will venture to communicate with you. Does AI really improve the gene pool, unless the people involved have huge integrity, I can see that it would lessen the gene pool because suddenly a stud can be used worldwide, many times. The point of AI, and I am sure you are aware of why it is topical is because of the shape of dog and it's inability to either mount a bitch or the ability to breathe and complete a mating without dying during the process. I know you will be aware that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit; sadly when it's used as a form of degradation to a person/people who are genuinely saddened and concerned about breeders who happily breed to create deformities in a dog, just because they a) can and b) like the look. Just like pulling a piece of plasticine into any old shape and I'm sure you know dogs have feelings and it's painful whereas plasticine is a substance and lifeless.
DeleteGeorgina, AI can be a fanatic tool. It affords you a greater choice of dogs when distance is a problem. And, e.g., you could also store semen and only use later when the dog has proven his health/fitness.
DeleteAs others have said, the point I'm making here is that it is difficult for Bulldogs to mate (or birth) naturally because of their shape. And in my opinion we shouldn't have done that to a dog.
Bestuvall I think we all know that A.I can be very beneficial to the gene pool but with Bulldogs it is being used because people have bred dogs that are detrimentally disfigured and they cannot mate naturally let alone bait a Bull. I also understand that you need KC approval to perform A.I from a dog that is alive and resident in the UK and the procedure is considered medical and therefore requires a vet to perform it.
DeleteJemima I know AI is extremely useful and beneficial. My point was that a dog's influence in one country can quickly conquer the whole world's population of one bloodline in one breed. It happened with a gundog breed in the UK in the 70s when the owner of a beautiful top winning dog used him to every bitch that came his way. There was no discriminate use of that dog, it was purely focused on making money whilst the dog was able to be used mainly because other people wanted to cash in from a winning point of view. That is what I meant, it has caused the genetic diversity of that breed to shrink hugely in the UK. It was not so usual in those days to use AI for dogs, expensive too, but today that influence could have been catastrophic by causing any even quicker demise in that breed.
Deletebestuvall,collecting semen for AI does not put the same strain on a male or female as natural sexual reproduction. Taking semen from a dog, they don't even need to mount anything, so no strain on the hips or pelvis, the heart rate just increases as they ejuculate. You are talking out of your arse again. Natural sexual reproduction, the dog has to court the bitch, which can sometimes be an hour of love dancing (Which is a lovely thing to see) and foreplay. This gives the bitch time to assess the male and whether he is potentially what she is looking for. Yep, sometimes the female, even though fully on can refuse a dog, but show her another dog and she's away. I've seen stallions, that have refused to mate a mare fully in season, but then happy to mate the next mare on and I have observed this with cows.
DeleteThen they can mount several times before hitting the spot. Natural sexual reproduction is a very important measure of dogs health and social abilities, but I guess those are things you care little for when breeding dogs.
As I said on another comment by you bestuvall 'AI is good in theory, but in practice it tends to be misused and it just enables popular sires to get a whole lot more popular. It does not increase genetic diversity in a breed, that comes from out crossing and open stud books.'
Lots of good points... that would probably be better heard if you didn't call people an arse or an idiot.
DeleteSorry Jemima, but some people just try my patience to hard. I apologies if I have been derogatory.
DeleteIf AI is so great for the genetics of the dog- why are bulldogs as a breed so totally decrepit?
Deleteoh and I should add that collecting dogs allows for semen to be frozen for future use to bitches everywhere and allows us to research the longevity of the dog we are freezing so collecting and freezing bulldog semen would allow for people to use dogs that lived longer than your model and due to advances in the devilment of extenders and insemination techniques we are able to AI bitches now with frozen semen with surgery.
ReplyDeleteYou really have missed the point here, Bestuvall. It ain't saying that AI the problem, the problem is that these dogs can not physically reproduce unless AI is used, because they have been bred so deformed they physically cannot perform the basic act of sexual reproduction.
DeleteJust imagine it bestuvall, you could potentially mate a male dog with it's Great Great Great Granddaughter, instead of it's daughter. Lol
DeleteNothing new with using frozen semen, had a calf born on a farm I know the other day from semen frozen in the 70's and Dairy cows are so not inbred using AI for years. In the real world what happens when AI is introduced is popular sires, just get a whole lot more popular.
It just has not been developed in dogs until recently, because the KC's did not allow it, but now some breeds are in such trouble either from low genetics or worse, they just cannot physically mate, we have now seen AI in dogs fast tracked.
AI is good in theory, but in practice it tends to be misused and as I said before it just enables popular sires to get a whole lot more popular. It does not increase genetic diversity in a breed, that comes from out crossing and open stud books.
dogs don't "have sex". they are driven by hormones to procreate however a thank you to wiki "Reproductive sexual intercourse between non-human animals is more often termed copulation, and sperm may be introduced into the female's reproductive tract in non-vaginal ways among the animals, such as by cloacal copulation. For most non-human mammals, mating and copulation occur at the point of estrus (the most fertile period of time in the female's reproductive cycle), which increases the chances of successful impregnation.[21][22] However, bonobos, dolphins and chimpanzees are known to engage in sexual intercourse regardless of whether or not the female is in estrus, and to engage in sex acts with same-sex partners.[23] Like humans engaging in sexual activity primarily for pleasure,[24] this behavior in the aforementioned animals is also presumed to be for pleasure,[25] and a contributing factor to strengthening their social bonds.[24]"
ReplyDeleteIC dogs don't have orgasims? Says who?
DeletePretty sure the headline is meant to be ironic...
DeleteHilarious Bestuvall. Splitting hairs again. Wiki does not state that dogs do not have sex you idiot. It states that dogs have reproductive sex, so they have sex, but it is reproductive sex and it is more commonly called 'copulation.' Copulation is another word meaning 'sex.' Duh!
DeleteSorry, as Wiki tells you bestuvall. Animals have reproductive sexual intercourse, so they do have sex, but it is reproductive sex and they also have orgasmic sex just like you do bestuvall or maybe not. Many animals that only have reproductive sex are big though on giving oral pleasure to each other and many/most masturbate, males especially. Bitches especially, but maybe I see that behaviour more in my dogs, because they are of a more natural body shape, so can easily reach their nether regions and can breath well enough to attend each other. You don't just have to have penetrative sex to enjoy yourself sexually and animals certainly know that.
DeleteI see where you are coming from here, bestuvall. I'm not religious but if you are or maybe even if you are not, I can see why you would want to say that dogs do not have sex.
DeleteIf you can say animals don't have sex. Then when you are jerking a dog off to collect it's semen, that then is not you performing a sexual act with a dog. because if religious this simple should be a no go area, because God frowns on humans performing sexual acts with animals. It is considered a sin.
There's nothing wrong or "graphic" about artificial insemination technology. It's an available tool and helps facilitate health and genetic diversity by eliminating distance barriers, especially for those working with rare breeds where inbreeding must constantly be minimized. The only issue I see is many Bulldogs appear to have become more extreme since the 1950's presumably because cesarian sections are safer and more easy to come by. Back in the day, there would have been a limit to the blockiness of their heads because the most extreme would not have made it through the natural breeding/whelping process. While I'd never advocate that those veterinary services be withheld from any dog, this should the ruler by which conscientious gauge what is desirable breed type vs. what is an unhealthy extreme. Are there kennels in your country free whelping their Bulldogs, perhaps breeding individuals with slightly longer muzzles and legs and slightly narrower heads and bodies? Rather than point out the bad, why not feature and educate on the good work these people are doing so that prospective owners and breeders can learn to recognize these things?
ReplyDeleteAI is good in theory, but in practice it tends to be misused and it just enables popular sires to get a whole lot more popular. It does not increase genetic diversity in a breed, that comes from out crossing and open stud books.
Deletethank you for sex education lecture. All this time,I thought humans were also driven by hormones.
ReplyDeleteyou are welcome. humans are driven by much more than hormones though aren't they?
DeleteBestuvall, sex is driven by hormones, whether reproductive or just for pleasure. Just someone touching you, gently stroking you releases hormones or someone beating the shit out of you releases hormones. You reading this, your reaction to it will be a cocktail of hormones released from your brain. Amazing is it not.
DeleteYes, they are driven by much more than hormones. Just like dogs.
DeleteSex in humans is driven by hormones when the human in question is feeling "horny". Some humans have Sex when they don't actually feel like doing so for various reasons, e.g. to make money, to manipulate their sexual partner, to dominate and demean another person etc. None of our non hormonal driven Sex acts are commendable in any way.
DeleteI think the issue here isn't the use of AI as a means of widening the genepool, but the fact that some of this breed can't mate without human intervention, which makes them unfit for function in the most basic sense. Likewise, breeds where the pups are more often than not born be C-section ought to be modified, or allowed to fade out to extinction and consigned to History. There just isn't any moral justification to deliberately breed any animal that is not able to perform basic functions like breathing and reproducing without difficulty. If anyone can think of a valid reason for deliberately producing dogs with these basic failings, please do share it.
ReplyDeleteI come from a family of "dog people." As I grow in age and hopefully wisdom, I've come to believe that the "dog people" culture is like a cult. They surround themselves with like people. This culture will continue to hold beliefs, no matter what evidence to the contrary that is presented to them, that will sustain their culture and breed. In the United States, the leader of this culture is the AKC. The "breed standard" is their mandate. I don't remember finding a breeder's website that fails to mention the almighty breed standard. Further more, when referring to the breed standard, they also indicate that breed standard has something to do with the health of the breed. Now I will get to the bottom line; the reality is that there are some breeds that should not exist- bulldogs, french bulldogs, pekingese monkey (I still believe that this breed look more like a monkey), and Neapolitan mastiff to name a few.
Deleteyour opinions only I assume that certain breeds should be extinct ( along with others here) and once more with feeling the AKC does not write the breed standards> Their "mandate; has nothing to do with the breed standards. Breed standards are mentioned on most websites so that readers will know what the breed should look like. It is not almighty.. it is just a standard . If you are a breeder you have no mandate to breed to the standard. You are free to breed any way you wish.
Delete"It is not almighty.. it is just a standard . If you are a breeder you have no mandate to breed to the standard. You are free to breed any way you wish." And look what they have done!
DeleteI do realize that breed standards come from the national breed clubs (e.g. the Bulldog Club of America sets the breed standard for bulldogs in the US). Regarding some breeds should be extinct, I would say some breed standards should become extinct. For instance, the BCA standard for the Bulldog is one of standards that should go out the door. Would it hurt the breed if the head was less exaggerated and the nose lengthened?
DeleteOf course, I have not read all of the Bulldog breeders websites or visited all the Facebook pages of Bulldog groups. Of the ones that I have, a common phrase goes something like, “we breed to the standard.” I’ve seen numerous posts from Bulldog breeders that question why other breeders are not breeding to the standard. If you want to get a bulldog breeder in tizzy, post of Bulldog that has a color that is not the standard.
Reading comprehension, angry bulldog fans! This post is not knocking artificial insemination as a means of improving genetic diversity, it is discussing that a dog with physically conformation such as this cannot mate naturally: https://www.facebook.com/217659998260025/photos/a.274172732608751.88714.217659998260025/1307294432629904/?type=3&theater
ReplyDeleteThe majority of bulldogs cannot reproduce or whelp without human intervention. If you cannot see why this is a problem, you need to do some serious self-examination.
On the topic of reading comprehension, if you'd read what I wrote, my concern for the breed is in fact that it cannot mate naturally and the health issues that come along with that. Separating that issue out from reproductive technology IS important because many laypeople don't understand that the tools themselves are not bad and can be used for good purposes. What's bad is that AI is being used in this specific example to perpetuate an unnatural body style that relies almost exclusively on it to exist. I don't want well-meaning, but uneducated people to react negatively to AI when it's being used for the welfare of the breed such as maintaining a diverse genepool. I think we might agree on these points, so no need to belittle my post.
DeleteI was actually responding to bestuvall.
DeleteBut I don't think the original post stigmatizes artificial insemination, even accidentally. It's clear to me that this is a bulldog-centric post only. There are still plenty of "lay people" out there who respond only to an English bulldog's physical cuteness and have no idea about the degrees to which breeders have gone to perpetuate a breed of such unnatural shape. There's no highlighting the good--and Jemima has featured crossbreeding efforts and the like in past posts--unless you understand the bad. The EB is the 5th most popular dog in the United States. Fully 75% of dogs suffer from hip dysplasia, 80% are delivered by C-section, and their average lifespan is just over six years. Again, much more important that people are aware of just how bloody health-compromised the breed is.
I do agree with your point that AI is one of the strongest tools in the fight to save purebred dogs. But just as C-sections should be few and far between, AI should not be the sole means of continuing a particular breed. As it seems to be with EBs.
Who in their right mind thinks 6 years is a good age for a dog to live?
ReplyDeleteThere is a great deal of difference between an elective AI because the male is very far away and you want to, and a mandatory AI because youve somehow created a dog that physically cannot mate, even if dog and bitch are in the same room. Sort of like youve created a dog that is lazy by sheer virtue of removing his ability to breathe, rather than selecting for a calm demeanor. Hard to run and enjoy life when you cant catch your breath.
ReplyDeleteIs Bentley actually alive in that photo? What did he do? Walk from the kitchen to the dining room and run out of breath? I don't mean to joke about the dog's suffering but look at him. He's stuffed!
ReplyDeleteBentley probably gets tired from just thinking about sex. Wait a minute, I'm sorry, dogs don't have sex.
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