From the makers of Pedigree Dogs Exposed, the latest news and views regarding inherited disorders and conformation issues in purebred dogs.
The kennels seem to be in Croatia, didn't sound German so I checked
Actually weeping. And PC won't even look, after seeing me look.
That is so sad. Can they not see how sad that is? I truly hope they read this. Her hocks are nearly slapping the ground when she moves. How can someone look at that and say "THIS, this is the aim of my breeding program"? As the happy owner of extremely athletic and healthy dwarf dogs, I am always acutely aware that we must be careful of where we draw lines. But I think that being able to move normally, see normally, breathe normally, and breed/whelp normally at least a good portion of the time are lines that should be easy to agree upon. Sad that they are not.
Oh my God. How...how do they not see...the words that come to mind are "crippled", "deformed", "some kind of disease"...Please tell me it's some kind of refuge for damaged dogs to live out their days in a protected environment. Please tell me that someone did not do that intentionally. Please.
I guess my question to the kennel (and I hope they come around to answer) would be this: How does this horrible angulation of the hock make the dog BETTER able to perform any of the historic duties of the German Shepherd (herding, police work, military work, protection, service dog work) than the old Rin Tin Tin type German Shepherd. If you have changed the dog on purpose, than it should be for the better. What was the dog with an actual dog's conformation NOT able to do that this dog CAN do. (I can't think of another animal that moves by trotting/running that has this type of conformation. The animals that in nature have this type of conformation move by hopping). A friend pointed out that the GSD people are trying to do with conformation (to get the flying trot) what the Tennessee Walker people do with shoeing )to get the Big Lick running walk): create an uphill gait to get someone's odd idea of pleasing movement. If you want to shudder, look into the Big Lick walkers.
But those extreme GSDs cannot perform a "flying trot" with a period of suspension. Examined closely, it is really a "continuous support gait" with at least one foot always supporting. For a true suspended trot, some of the sighthounds do it very elegantly (and without flailing legs or extreme angulation).
Just occurred to me that people in England may not be familiar with the big lick walkers of the horse show world. There are people who think this is pretty movement too, sadly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kYb0er9mbk&feature=related
I've long thought that the two were hideous analogs.Difference is, if someone sane buys the horse, stops soring him, takes the crap off his feet, gives him a nice pasture rest, keeps fat old nasty rednecks off his back, and retrains him, he can now move pretty normally.Not so that puppy. She will never be normal.
Heather, the other analogy is that outside of the show walker people, just about all other horse people pity the horses and wonder what is going on inside the heads of the hunched little men on their backs, who somehow think this is normal. Horse people feel the same about freakishly muscle-bound conformation Quarter Horses and western pleasure show horses who shuffle instead of trot. And just like with dogs, there are a host of people who breed walkers and quarter horses for their historic jobs (more or less) who look at their show-world cousins and scratch their heads and stomp their feet in helpless anger.You are right, though, that the horse can be shod normally and the soring can be stopped, and he can live out his days in relative peace and comfort. And at some point, that happens to most of the gaited show horses. Not so with the dogs who have to be shown naked and so are bred to exhibit the same profile that technology provides to the horse.
45 years ago I worked at Royal Acres Kennels and their beautiful, sound GSD's did NOT look like this. This is a bi-product of the "show" ring. This sad little dog proves my point that the show ring is no longer the place to find breeding stock. The good/sounds dogs are not often found there. Certainly the healthy ones are few and far between.
I was going to say they don't have the angry, pained tail whipping you see in rolkur trained dressage horses, but then I remembered that they often have surgically altered tails.
@octopus.galleryThat, and Tennessee Walkers are by nature very placid, agreeable horses unlike the sometimes high-strung Warmbloods at the upper levels. Which makes that kind of abuse more sad to me, that people are taking advantage of the Walkers' wonderful personalities.
Iva: The show ring was never the place to find breeding stock. Take for instance this article from 1913, almost 100 years ago. "As a rule show dogs are not worth much for a working purpose."http://i.imgur.com/UemDt.jpg
The kennel is in Croatia, BTW. I was sure that wasn't German he was speaking, but was at a bit of a loss after that.They have produced a dog that was BOB at Crufts, so there's that.
GOOD GRIEF. Is that pup PLANTIGRADE in the hind end? I have never been so sickened.Somewhere, Captain Max von Stephanitz is spinning in his grave with blazing fury. ~Anissa
I’ve often used the analogy of the Hans Christen Andersen’s story “The Emperor’s New Clothes” to explain how breed enthusiasts can abandon common sense and defend the indefensible.No doubt there’ll be mention of the large amount of health testing GSD breeders conduct. We’ll hear that our eyes are deceiving us, that the dog is passing through some natural development stage and that dogs of the exact same lines can scale vertical walls and leap ten foot spreads – just a pity they can’t walk in anything resembling a normal way. Sometimes you really don’t need DNA profiles, hip scores and blood tests to see when something is very wrong. The poor GSD has been lead down a conformation cul-de-sac on the based on a totally made up creation myth about how the breed’s form follows its function. If that template is so good why isn’t it considered desirable in a whole range of breeds? I love the diversity of form we see across the broad range of pedigree breeds. I consider dog breeds to be human achievements to rank alongside great works of art, literature and architecture. I also believe we devalue and debase that achievement when we fail to consider the dog in the round; the dog “as a dog” rather than purely as an example of its breed. The great majority of the pedigree dog world does put the needs of their dogs first. They do want to develop their breeds as healthy dogs before any consideration the nuances of breed type. Sadly there remain a hard core still wedded to the idea of “type” above all else. Amongst this group are the tragic few who still believe compromising a breed’s health is acceptable in pursuing the perfect paradigm of how their dogs should look. Even here, however, the majority now realise it’s unacceptable to deliberately produce unhealthy dogs in pursuit of whatever the fashionable look of their breed might be. They’re desperately trying to square the circle by creating healthy, happy dogs that still display the exaggerated conformation they regard as absolutely essential to the makeup of their breed.These breeders are using and in my view coming close to abusing, testing, screening and every weapon modern science can offer in their search for the Holy Grail of a healthy dog that fits their exaggerated template of breed type. Like all attempts at alchemy it’s doomed to failure. Our breeds weren’t created in laboratory conditions by scientists in white coats. They were, almost exclusively, created by practical people to undertake a job of work. These people used good sense and trusted the evidence of their eyes. I’m all for using modern science but not to the exclusion of good sense. Kevin Colwill
Well stated Kevin Colwill. I wrote a short essay titled "A peculiar blindness" that follows along similar lines of that which you write. You may read it here;http://sharpeiforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18287&hilit=a+peculiar+blindnessAnn Cardon
>The great majority of the pedigree dog world does put the needs of their dogs firstI doubt this. A survey of French breeders (http://www.revmedvet.com/artdes-us.php?id=1562) shows that 40% puts good conformation as the most important breeding goal. On average, conformation was the most important goal, followed by behaviour, health, working abilities and "others". What I find difficult to understand is that breeders in the scent hound and pointing dog groups declare working abilities to be most important yet still rank health behind conformation.
That has made me feel quite sad. No dog should look/move like that.VP
Dreadful. Physically handicapped for life - nothing can correct such deformities.
Anyone remember when the Royal Tournament at Earls Court was on tv, police GSD's jumping through burning hoops etc? Back then show gsd's looked little different from the workers, now we seem to have two separate breeds. This kennel, we are told, are show breeders. From an average litter of half a dozen maybe one will be worth showing, what happens to the rest? Who'd want a dog like that for a pet? Yet disposal seems to be no trouble, bitch producing fourth litter at age 3, that's more like a puppy farm. And I thought German KC's regulations were stricter than UK's.But regarding that pup's movement, the fact that it makes me cringe is no basis for rules and regulations. Most breeds are curbed from such extremes by wanting their BoB to go BiG and BiS, but GSD breeders apparently don't care for any opinion but each other's. Like the meerkat says, people!
pet homes apperntly,people think these flappy dogs are "adorable". seriously, I work in a doggy daycare and we had a show bred GSD pup come for a while, the dog walked much like the dog in the video, we have about 30 staff members and I was the ONLY person who found it horredenous, every single other employee and every single custamer thought the flappy walking was the cutest thing in the world. I swear the more deformed a dog is, the more adorable the general public thinks it is.
"I swear the more deformed a dog is, the more adorable the general public thinks it is. "Too true; the public love freaks; look at the popularity of TV shows such as 'Embarrassing Bodies', 'The Family that walks on All Fours' and 'The World's Ugliest Dog'.
Dear god, is that dog walking on its hocks?? How can this be considered anything but a deformity?
Not unlike these dogs in Egypt - advertised as 'show line' & for sale. Shocking if you look through all the videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0g8WQUYvHk&feature=relmfu
Are these people blind?
It's sights like this that make me so thankful Pedigree Dogs were Exposed! There is nothing about those dogs that is right & I notice that there is a deathly silence from GSD breeders in response to this video. I'd like to see them try & defend it.
That's the show world for you; it ruins all breeds! Simply because its not the dog that is judged, its all done by back handers, so dogs that are not top quality still get the awards and are then used to breed as the puppies are worth more from the so called "Top dogs" - It is so wrong that poor dog, what damage is it doing with it walking on its hocks? I'm a GSD breeder and I would be ashamed to breed a puppy like that! Looking at that it could be a totally different breed? It certainly isn't anything like the original GSD:-(
Apparently that breeder produces puppies for the Croatian military, not the show world.
Not what it says here...http://www.kennel-gim.comThese are primarily showline dogs.Jemima
The breeder was in charge of breeding GSDs for the Croatian military for the ten years between 92 and 02; I presume that's where he learned his trade and what made a 'good' dog.The schuzhund fans in the UK go on about how only dogs that are 'fit for function' can be successful in it; the fans of continental breeding (and these are continental dogs so totally outwith the remit of the KC, RSPCA or any UK law) say how much better the FCI system is, where dogs need to pass a 'fit for function' test before full pedigrees for breeding are confirmed. This video shows that's all a load of nonsense because those dogs are a travesty.
I disagree that the reason the dogs are deformed is corruption, at least not the precise form of corruption that Karen describes.Just paying off judges means that dogs that are not as "ideal" as others are awarded primacy.The problem here is that the "ideal" is so effed up in the first place.OTOH, this does speak to Mary's comment.Mary, the schutzhund system on the continent preserved the working German shepherd for decades.These travesties came about when the kind of corruption that Karen describes was applied to the working titling trials -- when unsound dogs began to be awarded unearned titles by "friendly" judges out of the sight of the public. The Midnight Trial. And it was all about the money to be made exporting the crippled offspring of useless VA dogs to North America and Japan.An honest working trial, conducted in public where everyone has a video camera, is still a useful tool for qualifying sound working breeding stock.
Heather, I´ve heard the same thing from a continental breeder of working GSD dogs: friendship corrpution creating a little league of powerful promoters of a few bloodlines, the offspring being sold off to Japan and the US for what this Belgian breeder called "MUCH MUCH MONEY".I guess that the Croatian breeder of these semi-crippled animals realized that there is much more money and much less hard work involved in producing and selling this type of dog (after all, the GSD German breed club does the marketing) compared to actually producing good, durable working dogs for the Army or the police in any country.
Those dog's back legs look terrible! Why the moders show German shepherd's look like this http://www.abijahgermanshepherds.com/about/rio_billyross.jpg when they used to liik like this http://cdn.pedigreedatabase.com/pictures/26718.jpg ?And I think that every dog breeder should remember this: http://the-wolfs.webs.com/gray-wolf.jpg
Your opinions on the adults movement seen in the background....
Towards the end of the video at about 43 seconds the adult in the pen is seen falling over. His action preceding the fall isn't on the video, but there is a person at the end of the pen holding something up. My guess is that the dog tried to jump up and it's rear is so unstable his literally fell over.
They become more and more close to Twisty Cats :'(((((
Please also post your comments on youtube. This has to stop!:(
The video is two years old - I wonder what kind of life span he sees from his lines?
These dogs make "Alsatians" look good!I pity the poor dogs in the video - their movement is appalling and they look uncomfortable. How anybody can approve of the way they move is beyond me - breeders and judges should hang their heads in shame
Yes. I wonder all this, too. And since the Stockholm international DogHealth conference, where so much was said on how to stop this, I´ve been waiting for the first GSD BoB to be refused by the first courageous vet.
And waiting I think we’ll be. Didn’t the UK Kennel Club promote a GSD with a hinge in its spine as the winner of Crufts Pastoral group in 2011 in an attempt to kid us all that that’s the best example in the group? This is not the first young-un with movement like that on the vid, and it won’t be the last. Walking on hocks, scraping hind nails down to the quick, flapping pasterns, weak rears and spinal defects appear to be coming more and more apparent. Germany seems hell bent on destroying its heritage. Why? A select few that own or have a vested interest in the top VA German show bloodlines and their apparent thirst for greed and money through world domination via the WUSV. It’s as simple as that, and it seems to be so powerful that no one and nothing can stop it.
Hard to see on what grounds a vet could dq a GSD BoB that wasn't actually lame. Would be un-surprising if that movement caused joint problems, but I've not heard of any. Did Stockholm conference come up with any ideas?
Bob, I´m still looking forward to Jemima´s report from Stockholm. The GSD was not - not that I heard, anyway - specifically mentioned and now that I think of it, isn´t that extraordinary? One of the most blatant instances of conformation as deformity in one of the most respected and well-known of all breeds? We saw abhorrent examples of the shortening of Boxer heads and the wrinkling of Chow Chow faces, but not a word on the GSD.Why, would the president of the German Kennel Club have walked out on us?Stockholm was interesting in several ways. Foremost, my impression was that leadership of kennel clubs are beginning to realize the genetic problems inherent in closed stud book breeding, having any number of genetically isolated small populations, i e breeds, availability of genetic tests which most breed clubs and definitely most breeders can´t assess (as in, When to use? To what purpose?) The national kennel clubs are worried about the growing gap in knowledge. They are worried about the growing hostility of younger vets towards many aspects of conformation breeding. They are worried about the public turning away. They are making a concerted effort to change things. What I wonder is, how far will they get with the structures that maintain the status quo?
Why would anyone find this desirable and deserving of winning at shows?? I'm just speechless.Louise
It is so sad. Any time I try and chat about it with people in the show world there is pretty much 2 argumentsThe dogs have perfect hips - they have been testedhmm yeah but that isnt the pointorIts just the way they are stacked - they would look OK if they were stood differentlyand sadly we are getting used to the look of these dogs so now people expect GSD's to have their bums sagging and hocks on the floor
It's not just that these dogs win Breed. They also win Group (and the herding group where they show in the US is full of non-extreme dogs from most of the other breeds) and BIS. On the other hand, the Brittany has more dual-titled dogs than any other breed here in the states (thank you, breeders!) and they just about never win group at the big shows, or so it seems. Which makes me wonder what they mean when they say they are judging on "fit for function".
What's also sad is there are people out there making videos and doing bio-mechanical analyses on GSD gaits and insisting that the GSD standard is producing strong structure, efficient, beautiful movement. Check out on youtube caninetrainingsystems on GSD movement - it made me cringe.
@benmcfuzzylugs I do think you have a point about stacking but it is not just GSDs there are other breeds who are changing shape and ability simply because they are stacking them in ways that over time (and remember it is a slow process) will change the shape of the breed. I could name quite few.@jemima these kennels which have appeared on your blog recently, are overseas, as Pedigree Dogs Exposed and Pedigree Dogs Exposed 2 focused only on British breeders and the UK KC I have had some overseas breeders tell me they think the British breeders and their dogs are the causes of the health problems and conformation problems and they think their stock is much better. Will you be doing a Pedigree Dogs Exposed 3 concentrating totally on dogs bred overseas? Looking at some of these overseas kennels you have featured I actually think they are a lot worse than anything produced here in the UK.
They look worse than deformed Hyenas. (Not that I want to insult the Hyenas, they are natural.)
It's worse than that! The "slope" of a hyena's back is the result of long front limbs and short hind limbs, combined with very powerful neck and shoulder muscles.In the case of hyenas, their slope DOES give them power (and for the dogs is probably what was meant in the first place by "slightly sloped back"- a strong front, not a weak back).
This used to be one of the most recognized and arguably the most regal of dogs..a breed that just by looking at it demanded respect. A serious, no-nonsense dog..now the show line is but a rendition of a ridiculous looking misfit..thank goodness there are still viable working lines out there..if you want a gsd and encounter a show line reference..run. This is blasphemy of the breed...the Captain would certainly agree.
Nobody judges the judges that award these genetic freaks. I do hope you have forwarded all these comments to the kennel concerned. In Australia, that level of deformity would induce a recommendation for specialist surgery...
That kennel is on mainland Europe and so nothing anyone from the UK says has any influence. I'm assuming you've contacted them to comment - after all Jemima has given the link to their website.
Disgusting.WHY do people who breed for show lose their effin minds? I see it in every breed, in every animal. Start with stopping the stack. That is mind numbingly stupid.
Canine movement can be beautiful. Among my 'world finest sights' are border collies zipping round an agility course like black-and-white lightning, or our standard poodles full of joie de vivre, chasing each other round a field: and after that, this? JH said watch and weep: I have and I am.But what to do? Many commenters here like the idea of stricter registration systems, or some kind of capability test to back up conformation shows. As Mary and Heather have pointed out, the FCI has the former, the schutzhund system supposedly does the latter: despite both, these breeders are using shows to promote a lucrative freak-market - on Bodil's info mainly in Japan and USA. We can't stop that trade, but our national KC's can exert influence on how their shows are won. One ray of hope was the GSD that won Pastoral group at Crufts 2011 which, though not without crouch, I thought moved a whole lot better than the pup in this vid. That award was intended, I believe, to encourage breeders to keep moving in the right direction. Let us hope they do so.
Only repeatedly rewarding moderation, not by withholding all awards until the latest idea of 'perfection' has been achieved, will continual and genetically stable improvements be made. But this takes generations, at roughly two years per generation, and it seems the media and general public are demanding instant change or extinction.
It seems simple to me...... Animals which have been exaggerated to such a hideous extent should be exempt from the show scene! Intentionally breeding these animals with such deformities which will cause discomfort and pain a some point in its life is nothing short of animal cruelty and folk responsible ought to be prosecuted!
Mary I hear what you are saying and this practice will apply to some if not most breeds, for the GSD there is no excuse, we have the working type which is heading in the right direction in terms of confirmation, dogs are meant to walk and stand on their paws not on their legs, this form of cruelty cannot be justified in any way in my view and most certainly should not be publicly displaying in the show ring
Mary there are plenty of GSD out there with fantastic working conformation and not the extreme body types like in the video. They are not recognized by judges who apparently prefer the physical train wrecks instead. We don't need generations to change this, we need fresh judges.
Bob Grundy asked: “But what to do?” By tinkering with the show ring and what is rewarded, you are doing the equivalent of painting a house that is standing on rotten foundations. The problem is the foundations and the house needs to be torn down. What to do is quite easy. Dogs were bred to perform a function. Form follows function. Stop rewarding form. Reward function only.Implement the following system:1. If a dog meets the breed standard, it is that breed. Period. If it has a grandparent or great grandparent or great great grandparent that was not of that breed, who cares. Do not give any award for meeting the breed standard, only a certificate to state the dog meets the standard.2. A dog that is considered potential championship material must pass a thorough vet check that includes evaluating whether its conformation damages health and functionality. Dogs that are not physically sound fail and are not permitted to progress. 3. Award titles on the basis of the level achieved in the performance of the activity the dog was bred for. Trials must be public. Any dog that achieves the highest level in an appropriate sport is a champion. If the dog’s original function is no longer appropriate (fighting comes to mind), alternatives should be found. If people really want to run around a ring with their dogs on the end of a piece of string, fine. Have fun. But put criteria one and two above in place and don’t award anything that counts. And certainly don’t pretend that this process, in which form is divorced from function, produces anything that resembles a champion. It doesn’t.‘Utility is the true criterion of beauty.’ Max von Stephanitz
Nice idea Sarah, but systems can only be as good as the people that apply them. UK KC's GSD breed standard:- "The topline runs without any visible break from the set on of the neck, over the well defined withers, falling away slightly in a straight line to the gently sloping croup. The back is firm, strong and well muscled. Loin broad, strong, well muscled. Weak, soft and roach backs undesirable and should be heavily penalised" and "working ability never sacrificed for mere beauty". Show judges are in theory guardians of that standard: the problem is old as the Roman empire, "quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" - who will guard the guardians?I haven't an answer, but here is an antidote to this toxic video:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e6VjuehIZg
Bob, I am stunned by that standard because the soft roach back that is meant to be "heavily penalised" is in fact put up. All. The. Time.And not just by the breed judges, because they win Group and BIS. Have NONE of the judges read the standard? I really wish just one of them would post here and explain how it is that they routinely place dogs who are the opposite of the standard and never place dogs that meet the standard.Love the video. Sad to say that most police departments don't use GSD's any more. For obvious reasons, I suppose. The Belgian Malinois has become popular. Our own local force has used Dutch shepherds.
I hope the Leerburg people don't mind if I link to their site. An interesting article on the decline of the GSD for police work, and some of the reasons. Basically it's just hard to find ones that are suitable. So much for form determining function. And this is particularly striking:" Advocates of the working show dog say that the working dog must come to the show standard and advocates of the working lines say that this will only degrade the working ability of the GSD even further. "http://leerburg.com/kevin1.htm?set=1. There is so much wrong with the first view I don't even know where to start. The issue with GSD's is near and dear to my heart. I am not at all a fancier of them per se, but it was the pathetic crippled dogs I started seeing on the big shows that made me cry and turn off the channel (especially when the cut from the Group-winning GSD on one of the big televised shows here in the States back to the BIS-winning GSD from the 70's and I could see the horrible change with mine own two eyes). And it's the fact that show GSD's are not suitable for ANY work, yet their breeders insist that working breeders are the ones who need to change, that makes me shake my head at the cognitive dissonance that must be going on to allow these people to look at their crippled dogs and beam at what a wonderful thing they have done.
I recall someone saying a few years ago that the German SV (the parent club of the GSD for those that don’t know) compared itself to an oil tanker - it turns ever so slowly. Well, when it gets to the corner, it’ll be turning to meet the demise of the breed!
Bob, I agree 100% that systems are only as good as the people who create and apply them, and I am the first to say that there are problems in sport/working dog world too. However, it is also true that some systems are inherently better or worse than others. It doesn’t matter how well-written the criteria are, or how good the people who apply them are; if the system is fatally flawed, the process is doomed. Dogs have been turned into conformational and genetic wrecks by the show system in less than 150 years and the damage continues. They were kept sound for millennia by work and breeding for working traits. I think we do know ‘the answer’. The problem is overcoming ignorance, egos and vested interests in order to implement it. Thanks for the video clip – it is lovely. So is your choice of the word ‘antidote’. That tragic dog in the above video made me weep. The dogs in your video make my heart sing.
I believe there's going to be a display of show-bred GSDs at Crufts next year, which will rival that of the RAF police dogs in the video Bob Grundy linked to. We're all going to be convinced, once and for all, that the show-bred dogs have simply outstanding athleticism and are the superior specimen. Seriously, if my breed was accused of being a cripple, I'd be falling over myself to prove people wrong. Here's your opportunity show GSD breeders - let the whole world see what your dogs are capable of!After all, for all the criticism I levy at Whippet breeders for the loss of genetic diversity, at least the show-bred Whippet can still hunt, race, lure course and do agility.
She looks like she has suffered a spinal injury and been left with semi paralysis in her back legs. It's disgusting that anyone would think this is anything other than utter lunacy. I almost can't bear to look at her.
It's possible to get a bad pup out of a good mating, and while this pup has awful movement, I'm not ready to draw any conclusions without more context. It's sad to see dogs (especially pups) pacing in long, narrow runs. And while I don't agree with animal rights folks on many breeding limits, 4 litters from a 3 yr old is extreme.
I don't think it's an "bad pup". Look at the dogs in the other runs. Same crouchy, ghastly conformation.
It looks like the dog is evolving human feet. Its offspring are going to walk semi-upright and carry spears.
Wrong on that one, Anonymous. Its offspring are going to walk semi-upright and carry crutches.
Geez, that's disgusting. I'm jealous of these peoples' kennel facilities... such nice kennels should belong to someone with healthy working dogs who does good things for dogs, instead of deforming them.
So depressing, I couldn't bear to watch more than a few seconds. This just reminds me of how desperately people like you, Jemima, are needed in the world of dogs, to open everyone's eyes to what is going on.
Read it and weep. I've been weeping for years over this breed. Bob Grundy said that putting up Elmo in 2011 was moving in the right direction. Sorry to disagree Bob. For me this was a complete U turn for the KC. There were plenty of good 'Middle of the Road' type dogs, with straight backs (not the short legged alsatian type, but as someone said this pup makes them look GOOD, and certainly functional). No, dogs of a type that fall in the middle, and that we would recognise from years gone by. From the golden days of the 70's before it all REALLY started to go so badly wrong. Putting up one of those dogs would have been moving in the right direction. Showing that the any exaggeration of conformation was acceptable. THAT would have been going in the right direction. As it was there was little difference in the dog they put up, and the one that they made so much fuss about previously. I am pleased to see that not one GSD show breeder has had the gall to come on here to try and defend it. Every one of them should hang their heads in shame, they are all contributing to this tragedy.