tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post688406188638926152..comments2024-03-20T17:32:35.238+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: It's a crimeJemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger78125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-85888247382157769672014-03-23T15:16:54.427+00:002014-03-23T15:16:54.427+00:00I had no idea that the German Sheperd has been def...I had no idea that the German Sheperd has been deformed to this crippling depth. I just lost my German bred German Shepard and although she had a very, very slight sloping back (something which I always considered as not ideal) She was happiest when we were out, running for hours, cycling, riding, and she did the distance thrice what with all the running in circles and interesting sniffing opportunities.<br />These dogs would barely manage to shuffle around the block, crippled as they are. What a crying shame!Aafkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09208127027735552298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-91911806854332595192014-03-23T15:11:13.535+00:002014-03-23T15:11:13.535+00:00Actually they don't ride highstrung horses any...Actually they don't ride highstrung horses anymore in top class dressage, horses with a lot of spirit and character will not submit to the abuse of roll-kur, you see very few high bred horses like Arabians, Thoroughbreds, Trakheners anymore. They are mostly Dutch warmblood, Hannoverians etc, horses with roots in agriculture who will take the abuse better. In old dressage books photos the high bred horses dominate, but of course they are ridden beautifully, completely opposite to the modern dressage abuse.Aafkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09208127027735552298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-41354466029004407102012-09-15T17:00:49.949+01:002012-09-15T17:00:49.949+01:00Read it and weep. I've been weeping for years ...Read it and weep. I've been weeping for years over this breed. Bob Grundy said that putting up Elmo in 2011 was moving in the right direction. Sorry to disagree Bob. For me this was a complete U turn for the KC. There were plenty of good 'Middle of the Road' type dogs, with straight backs (not the short legged alsatian type, but as someone said this pup makes them look GOOD, and certainly functional). No, dogs of a type that fall in the middle, and that we would recognise from years gone by. From the golden days of the 70's before it all REALLY started to go so badly wrong. Putting up one of those dogs would have been moving in the right direction. Showing that the any exaggeration of conformation was acceptable. THAT would have been going in the right direction. As it was there was little difference in the dog they put up, and the one that they made so much fuss about previously. <br /><br />I am pleased to see that not one GSD show breeder has had the gall to come on here to try and defend it. Every one of them should hang their heads in shame, they are all contributing to this tragedy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-65878193708273767862012-09-10T19:00:28.370+01:002012-09-10T19:00:28.370+01:00So depressing, I couldn't bear to watch more t...So depressing, I couldn't bear to watch more than a few seconds. This just reminds me of how desperately people like you, Jemima, are needed in the world of dogs, to open everyone's eyes to what is going on. Mandynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-14656079625834110652012-09-09T02:43:36.147+01:002012-09-09T02:43:36.147+01:00It's worse than that!
The "slope" ...It's worse than that! <br /><br />The "slope" of a hyena's back is the result of long front limbs and short hind limbs, combined with very powerful neck and shoulder muscles.<br /><br />In the case of hyenas, their slope DOES give them power (and for the dogs is probably what was meant in the first place by "slightly sloped back"- a strong front, not a weak back).Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05363424776770683268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-54616256334491091882012-09-08T13:21:52.934+01:002012-09-08T13:21:52.934+01:00Iva: The show ring was never the place to find bre...Iva: The show ring was never the place to find breeding stock. Take for instance this article from 1913, almost 100 years ago. "As a rule show dogs are not worth much for a working purpose."<br /><br />http://i.imgur.com/UemDt.jpgPaulhttp://dogs-dogs-dogs.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-945857108212404032012-09-08T13:02:18.548+01:002012-09-08T13:02:18.548+01:00Geez, that's disgusting. I'm jealous of th...Geez, that's disgusting. I'm jealous of these peoples' kennel facilities... such nice kennels should belong to someone with healthy working dogs who does good things for dogs, instead of deforming them.Paulhttp://dogs-dogs-dogs.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-89413649664927752102012-09-05T09:42:10.917+01:002012-09-05T09:42:10.917+01:00I believe there's going to be a display of sho...I believe there's going to be a display of show-bred GSDs at Crufts next year, which will rival that of the RAF police dogs in the video Bob Grundy linked to. We're all going to be convinced, once and for all, that the show-bred dogs have simply outstanding athleticism and are the superior specimen. <br /><br />Seriously, if my breed was accused of being a cripple, I'd be falling over myself to prove people wrong. Here's your opportunity show GSD breeders - let the whole world see what your dogs are capable of!<br /><br />After all, for all the criticism I levy at Whippet breeders for the loss of genetic diversity, at least the show-bred Whippet can still hunt, race, lure course and do agility. Frannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-79277416508958682502012-09-03T07:50:44.432+01:002012-09-03T07:50:44.432+01:00Bob, I agree 100% that systems are only as good as...Bob, I agree 100% that systems are only as good as the people who create and apply them, and I am the first to say that there are problems in sport/working dog world too. However, it is also true that some systems are inherently better or worse than others. It doesn’t matter how well-written the criteria are, or how good the people who apply them are; if the system is fatally flawed, the process is doomed. <br /><br />Dogs have been turned into conformational and genetic wrecks by the show system in less than 150 years and the damage continues. They were kept sound for millennia by work and breeding for working traits. I think we do know ‘the answer’. The problem is overcoming ignorance, egos and vested interests in order to implement it. <br /><br />Thanks for the video clip – it is lovely. So is your choice of the word ‘antidote’. That tragic dog in the above video made me weep. The dogs in your video make my heart sing. <br />Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-27745691614774171882012-09-02T20:36:07.310+01:002012-09-02T20:36:07.310+01:00I recall someone saying a few years ago that the G...I recall someone saying a few years ago that the German SV (the parent club of the GSD for those that don’t know) compared itself to an oil tanker - it turns ever so slowly. Well, when it gets to the corner, it’ll be turning to meet the demise of the breed!<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-12314067362576636492012-09-02T18:23:31.912+01:002012-09-02T18:23:31.912+01:00I hope the Leerburg people don't mind if I lin...I hope the Leerburg people don't mind if I link to their site. An interesting article on the decline of the GSD for police work, and some of the reasons. Basically it's just hard to find ones that are suitable. So much for form determining function. And this is particularly striking:<br /><br />" Advocates of the working show dog say that the working dog must come to the show standard and advocates of the working lines say that this will only degrade the working ability of the GSD even further. "<br /><br />http://leerburg.com/kevin1.htm?set=1. <br /><br />There is so much wrong with the first view I don't even know where to start. The issue with GSD's is near and dear to my heart. I am not at all a fancier of them per se, but it was the pathetic crippled dogs I started seeing on the big shows that made me cry and turn off the channel (especially when the cut from the Group-winning GSD on one of the big televised shows here in the States back to the BIS-winning GSD from the 70's and I could see the horrible change with mine own two eyes). And it's the fact that show GSD's are not suitable for ANY work, yet their breeders insist that working breeders are the ones who need to change, that makes me shake my head at the cognitive dissonance that must be going on to allow these people to look at their crippled dogs and beam at what a wonderful thing they have done.Bethnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-54853511136107198752012-09-02T18:11:56.326+01:002012-09-02T18:11:56.326+01:00Bob, I am stunned by that standard because the sof...Bob, I am stunned by that standard because the soft roach back that is meant to be "heavily penalised" is in fact put up. All. The. Time.<br /><br />And not just by the breed judges, because they win Group and BIS. <br /><br />Have NONE of the judges read the standard? I really wish just one of them would post here and explain how it is that they routinely place dogs who are the opposite of the standard and never place dogs that meet the standard.<br /><br />Love the video. Sad to say that most police departments don't use GSD's any more. For obvious reasons, I suppose. The Belgian Malinois has become popular. Our own local force has used Dutch shepherds. Bethnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-60109622118514656962012-09-02T12:03:32.253+01:002012-09-02T12:03:32.253+01:00Nice idea Sarah, but systems can only be as good a...Nice idea Sarah, but systems can only be as good as the people that apply them. UK KC's GSD breed standard:- "The topline runs without any visible break from the set on of the neck, over the well defined withers, falling away slightly in a straight line to the gently sloping croup. The back is firm, strong and well muscled. Loin broad, strong, well muscled. Weak, soft and roach backs undesirable and should be heavily penalised" and "working ability never sacrificed for mere beauty". Show judges are in theory guardians of that standard: the problem is old as the Roman empire, "quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" - who will guard the guardians?<br /><br />I haven't an answer, but here is an antidote to this toxic video:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e6VjuehIZgBob Grundynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-64251620987734757572012-09-01T19:34:13.739+01:002012-09-01T19:34:13.739+01:00@octopus.gallery
That, and Tennessee Walkers are ...@octopus.gallery<br /><br />That, and Tennessee Walkers are by nature very placid, agreeable horses unlike the sometimes high-strung Warmbloods at the upper levels. Which makes that kind of abuse more sad to me, that people are taking advantage of the Walkers' wonderful personalities.Toryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12120942140643631640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-36717624572125951222012-09-01T15:56:34.469+01:002012-09-01T15:56:34.469+01:00Bob Grundy asked: “But what to do?”
By tinkerin...Bob Grundy asked: “But what to do?” <br /><br />By tinkering with the show ring and what is rewarded, you are doing the equivalent of painting a house that is standing on rotten foundations. The problem is the foundations and the house needs to be torn down. <br /><br />What to do is quite easy. Dogs were bred to perform a function. Form follows function. Stop rewarding form. Reward function only.<br /><br />Implement the following system:<br /><br />1. If a dog meets the breed standard, it is that breed. Period. If it has a grandparent or great grandparent or great great grandparent that was not of that breed, who cares. Do not give any award for meeting the breed standard, only a certificate to state the dog meets the standard.<br /><br />2. A dog that is considered potential championship material must pass a thorough vet check that includes evaluating whether its conformation damages health and functionality. Dogs that are not physically sound fail and are not permitted to progress. <br /><br />3. Award titles on the basis of the level achieved in the performance of the activity the dog was bred for. Trials must be public. Any dog that achieves the highest level in an appropriate sport is a champion. If the dog’s original function is no longer appropriate (fighting comes to mind), alternatives should be found. <br /><br />If people really want to run around a ring with their dogs on the end of a piece of string, fine. Have fun. But put criteria one and two above in place and don’t award anything that counts. And certainly don’t pretend that this process, in which form is divorced from function, produces anything that resembles a champion. It doesn’t.<br /><br />‘Utility is the true criterion of beauty.’ Max von Stephanitz<br />Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-16052334656199034032012-09-01T15:54:06.840+01:002012-09-01T15:54:06.840+01:00Mary there are plenty of GSD out there with fantas...Mary there are plenty of GSD out there with fantastic working conformation and not the extreme body types like in the video. They are not recognized by judges who apparently prefer the physical train wrecks instead. We don't need generations to change this, we need fresh judges.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-68630779803207520082012-09-01T15:48:17.916+01:002012-09-01T15:48:17.916+01:00I don't think it's an "bad pup"....I don't think it's an "bad pup". Look at the dogs in the other runs. Same crouchy, ghastly conformation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-15640708791539878152012-09-01T08:37:56.592+01:002012-09-01T08:37:56.592+01:00Wrong on that one, Anonymous. Its offspring are go...Wrong on that one, Anonymous. Its offspring are going to walk semi-upright and carry crutches.Bodil Carlssonhttp://collievaenner.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-36418929620661215032012-08-31T22:49:15.046+01:002012-08-31T22:49:15.046+01:00Mary I hear what you are saying and this practice ...Mary I hear what you are saying and this practice will apply to some if not most breeds, for the GSD there is no excuse, we have the working type which is heading in the right direction in terms of confirmation, dogs are meant to walk and stand on their paws not on their legs, this form of cruelty cannot be justified in any way in my view and most certainly should not be publicly displaying in the show ringAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-30905746682221828342012-08-31T21:57:35.112+01:002012-08-31T21:57:35.112+01:00It looks like the dog is evolving human feet. Its ...It looks like the dog is evolving human feet. Its offspring are going to walk semi-upright and carry spears.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-57268998490612169892012-08-31T19:51:58.933+01:002012-08-31T19:51:58.933+01:00It seems simple to me...... Animals which have bee...It seems simple to me...... Animals which have been exaggerated to such a hideous extent should be exempt from the show scene! Intentionally breeding these animals with such deformities which will cause discomfort and pain a some point in its life is nothing short of animal cruelty and folk responsible ought to be prosecuted!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-2482099927068093022012-08-31T19:47:01.370+01:002012-08-31T19:47:01.370+01:00Only repeatedly rewarding moderation, not by withh...Only repeatedly rewarding moderation, not by withholding all awards until the latest idea of 'perfection' has been achieved, will continual and genetically stable improvements be made. But this takes generations, at roughly two years per generation, and it seems the media and general public are demanding instant change or extinction.Marynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-81826934466033641692012-08-31T18:15:13.176+01:002012-08-31T18:15:13.176+01:00It's possible to get a bad pup out of a good m...It's possible to get a bad pup out of a good mating, and while this pup has awful movement, I'm not ready to draw any conclusions without more context. <br />It's sad to see dogs (especially pups) pacing in long, narrow runs. And while I don't agree with animal rights folks on many breeding limits, 4 litters from a 3 yr old is extreme.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14389321571689128858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-48771008316230336632012-08-31T14:35:14.619+01:002012-08-31T14:35:14.619+01:00She looks like she has suffered a spinal injury an...She looks like she has suffered a spinal injury and been left with semi paralysis in her back legs. It's disgusting that anyone would think this is anything other than utter lunacy. I almost can't bear to look at her. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-47837789114505213482012-08-31T13:45:21.413+01:002012-08-31T13:45:21.413+01:00Canine movement can be beautiful. Among my 'wo...Canine movement can be beautiful. Among my 'world finest sights' are border collies zipping round an agility course like black-and-white lightning, or our standard poodles full of joie de vivre, chasing each other round a field: and after that, this? JH said watch and weep: I have and I am.<br /><br />But what to do? Many commenters here like the idea of stricter registration systems, or some kind of capability test to back up conformation shows. As Mary and Heather have pointed out, the FCI has the former, the schutzhund system supposedly does the latter: despite both, these breeders are using shows to promote a lucrative freak-market - on Bodil's info mainly in Japan and USA. We can't stop that trade, but our national KC's can exert influence on how their shows are won. One ray of hope was the GSD that won Pastoral group at Crufts 2011 which, though not without crouch, I thought moved a whole lot better than the pup in this vid. That award was intended, I believe, to encourage breeders to keep moving in the right direction. Let us hope they do so.Bob Grundynoreply@blogger.com