Monday, 16 January 2012

The KC's answer to Pedigree Dogs Exposed

We've been aware that this was in the making... A 30 minute film telling us how wonderful the Kennel Club is and how dogs are safe in their hands.  Only had a chance to view the first few minutes (in which Clare Balding in honeyed tones tells us that the Kennel Club registers all dogs.... eh?).

Good to see the emphasis on health in what I've seen so far... and this film would have been unthinkable a few years ago. It also looks well-made (by a small independent called Savannah Films). But already a few things to make me hyperventilate. More later...

Accompanying KC press release here.

66 comments:

  1. Annie Macfarlane16 January 2012 at 11:59

    I notice that the press release says that the number of litters that can be registered from a bitch is "currently" 6 but that will be changing in 2012. I was informed that my comment relating to this was wrong and from 1 January 2012 this would change to 4. It would appear that the KC still register 6 litters from a bitch. Was I wrong or did I have my facts right? I'm disappointed to see that the KC do not think that registering litters back to back, one after the other is a cause for concern...

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    1. Taken from the KC website: http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/346

      Q. Are there any restrictions that would prevent me from registering my pedigree puppies?
      A. Yes, if any of the following apply:

      The dam has already whelped 4 litters (as of the 1st January 2012 the limit changed from 6 litters to 4 litters). As of this date the Kennel Club will no longer register any further litters from any bitch which our records show has already whelped 4 litters. Therefore for any litter born on or after the 1st January 2012, the system will automatically check to see how many previous litters the Kennel Club has an account of. Where the number previously recorded is 4 or more, the application will be rejected, or
      The dam has already reached the age of 8 years at the date of whelping, (relief from this restriction may be considered normally provided an application is made prior to the mating, the proposed dam has previously whelped at least one other registered litter, and the application is supported by veterinary evidence as to the suitability of the bitch involved in the proposed whelping), or
      The dam was under one year old at the time of mating, or
      The offspring are the result of any mating between father and daughter, mother and son or brother and sister, save in exceptional circumstances or for scientifically proven welfare reasons, or
      The dam has already had two litters delivered by caesarean section, save for scientifically proven welfare reasons and this only normally provided the application is made prior to the mating, or
      The dam was not resident at a UK address at the date of whelping.
      If either the dam or sire are endorsed with progeny not eligible for registration (i.e. that there is a restriction on file at the Kennel Club that prevents any puppies from being registered). Please refer to your owner certificate if you are unsure, the endorsement will be clearly displayed.
      There are further Kennel Club Rules and Regulations that may prevent a litter from being registered; the full Kennel Club Rules and Regulations are contained in the Kennel Club Year Book.

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    2. Annie Macfarlane16 January 2012 at 17:07

      Thank you for providing the information. This is what threw me when I read the press release issued today....

      From 2012, the Kennel Club will not register more than four litters from a single bitch in its lifetime. The legal limit is currently six litters per bitch but the Kennel Club is concerned that this number could be detrimental to a bitch’s welfare.

      It doesnt give a date but thank you for clearing up the confusion.

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    3. How would the KC know that a bitch has had caesarians previously? Do all veterinarians report these surgeries directly to them?

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    4. The Kennel Club have ask the Vets for the last 20 years to report such procedures, but the BVA have declined to do so........then the Vets said they might do so following intense lobbying from the KC ........odd that the Vets are tryingto say they now are the ones driving this policy!?!

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    5. I'm really trying to understand how this is supposed to work.

      My vet doesn't even know (have a record of) my dogs' registered names. Why would he? It's not relevant to his medical treatment of them or our doctor-client relationship. It would be even less relevant if I showed up at an emergency vet who had never met me before needing an emergency c-section at 0300 on a Sunday morning.*

      Is this done very differently in Britain? Do veterinarians have copies of each patient's breed registration papers in their files?

      *Our club-run, nonprofit, single-breed registry has a questionnaire on the litter registration form that includes questions about the whelping -- not just c-sections, but whether pitocin was needed/used, etc. I'd have to check, but I can't ever remember ANY c-sections in our breed. If one was needed, that would be a noteworthy emergency. I actually doubt that our registrants would withhold that information, not because they are superior humans, but because there would be no real reason to do so. Certainly any bitch of mine who needed surgery to remove her offspring would get a therapeutic spay at the same time -- overdetermined on both welfare grounds and breed conservation grounds.

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  2. Nice put together film, very unbiased and enjoyable to watch especially as they do mention the fact that Crossbreeds can suffer health issues along side Pedigrees. Hopefully this will help Joe Public question a lot of the Money Grabbing doodle breeders practices

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  3. Apart from the falsehoods in the KC's "infomercial" (a US term for a lengthy TV ad), this is a very good indication that PDE has had a positive effect upon the club. I am sure that PDE2 will be re-edited to respond to the falsehood parts of the ad. -- Rod Russell, Orlando, Florida USA

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  4. Annie Macfarlane16 January 2012 at 14:42

    It's not just doodle breeders that are money grabbing! This film is just KC propoganda. I thought I was watching a fantasy film.... "You only have to visit a dog show to see that the British are truly a nation of dog lovers"...or something like that... "The Kennel Club's ethos is about dog health and welfare..all dogs..not just pedigree".... No it's not!

    the KC are getting a lot of back slapping on their Facebook site from the anti-PDE people. They fail to see though that all of this work has only been started since PDE. The world of dogs would be a much different place if PDE had not aired.

    Now I'm sure Clare got a salary for narrating the film...but I don't see anybody asking how much she received....because she is working for the KC...not highlighting the real problems in this monopoly.

    Even DLRC do not allow litters to be registered from bitches that have been mated back to back.....so why can't the KC? After all, their whole ethos is about dog health and welfare....

    One good thing though...it appears that they will be asking for volume breeders to produce their breeding licence before registering their puppies. If they don't produce it then it then the litter won't be registered. Very good...I like that!

    KCABs are "expected" to carry out all the required and recommended testing and are "expected" to breed from only dogs that have good health test results. If we find breeders that are not fulfilling this objective of the AB scheme we must report it to the KC and they will be dealt with...possibly removed! Oh, and if they are removed they can still continue to register their puppies with the KC...and can register back to back matings....which currently they can do for 6 litters in a row.

    Does that appear to be an organisation whose ethos is "the health and welfare of dogs....all dogs"? Nope!

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  5. I've watched this film twice, the first time to get a general impression, then watched it agin taking notes, then took the dogs for a walk and give myself time to think about the film.

    As a public relations exercise about the KC it has been very well done. Good camera work, some nice looking dogs, a polite and bland commentary . The film appears to answer many of the questions asked in PDE, and describes the KC initiatives on dog health and breeding which have been put in place since PDE, so the film should be very reassuring to the general public, the familes thinking of buying a pedigree dog as a pet, and the kind of breeders and breed clubs who are still in denial about the health problems in their breeds. "The whole ethos of the kennel club is about the health and welfare of dogs" says Steve Dean , new chair of the KC. The KC "registers all dogs " (since when?) and "lobbies hard on welfare". And the "KC has always taken the lead on inherited disease". Really?

    The film seems to be almost entirely about show dogs and breeders, in spite of show dogs being only a small percentage of the dogs registered with the KC. Much of the footage filmed at shows. Where are the fit and functional working dogs who could have been a great advert for British dogs? Not a working dog to be seen in the entire film, not a mention of them. Although somebody (at a show) makes the claim that "dachshunds are a working breed". Maybe in Germany , not in the UK!
    Two things I really did like. The bulldog breeder Norman Davies with his enthusiastic and genuine commitment to breeding a healthier, fitter bulldog, and his honest admission that his new type of bulldog is not yet winning in the show dog. I hope his optimism that this will change turns out to be true.I thought Norman and his dogs are the stars of this film.
    And the low uric acid Dalmatian from the American outcross who is now being shown in the UK. Glad the Kennel Club is positively backing this kind of breeder
    Sarah Blott is good on the work of the AHT, and the Mate select project, and I like that she mentioned breeding for diversity as well as DNA testing. Sheila Crispin is just so likeable, and realistic and determined to build bridges, she gives sufficient endorsement to the KC while quietly recognising this progress is only just the start and there is a long way to go yet.
    And thats the problem with this film, it gives the impression that health and welfare really are the first priority of the KC, that with all these new initiatives they are fully in control of the problems
    But has anything really changed so far? Is the Mate Select project really starting to bring down COIs? In my small breed, with a small gene pool, we have breeders who are still turning out litters with COIs of 35% and 37%, who cant see any problem with this. Banning very close matings wont stop them, the high COIs are the result of generations of inbreeding, not from brother/sister or father/daughter matings. Our breed club doesnt condemn the high COIs and is against the outcross plan for the breed, aimed at widening the gene pool of the breed, which the Irish Kennel Club has allowed. What will the KC do for small breeds like mine, other than encouraging more DNA testing for the very problems caused by inbreeding? Steve Dean says they wont use coercion........" we cant make breeders do anything" Actually, you can if you want to.
    So, yes, a good film as a public relations exercise. Carefully timed to pre-emt some of the things likely to be raised in PDE2.And it does demonstrate that the KC has started some projects to improve health
    Does it fill me with confidence that things have changed dramatically so far? Or reassure me that things were never really as bad as Jemima showed in PDE? No it doesnt

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    1. "The KC "registers all dogs " (since when?)"
      Any dog of any parentage can be registered on the Activities register.

      Delete
  6. The GSDs walking behind the vet at the start, had pretty straight backs, curious as they were apparently being shown at Richmond Show. One of them still had a pretty dodgy gait though.

    Whereas PDE grabbed me from the start, only 2-minutes in to this video and I'm starting to feel bored. It's blatant propaganda, but at its blandest. I fear I may do myself harm, if I force myself to watch anymore of it.

    Sorry KC, I'd normally be interested in watching your video, but it's just so DULL!

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  7. Sounds a rubble in the distance..........could it be Jemima's Thunder having been stolen right under nose?

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    1. Annie Macfarlane16 January 2012 at 18:25

      Que? What is a "rubble in the distance"? That's a new one on me!

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    2. I don't understand how you can say the production steals "Jemima's Thunder". If I were in JH's position, I'd be acknowledging that PDE was an incredible force for change and I'd be incredibly proud of my achievements. Like a terrier she has kept after the issues, gnawing at them for nearly four years to keep the momentum going.

      I suspect she will still be gnawing at them for the next four years!

      As always, keep going, H

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  8. Personally I think it just goes to prove that Pedigree Dogs Exposed gave the Kennel Club the kick up the backside it needed to actually get their head out of the sand and do something about the appalling state some breeds of pedigree dogs had got into under their umbrella.

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  9. Oh Knickers in a twist with Jemima Bum Chums on here lol. Annie McFarlane regarding the DLRC they will indeed register back to backs as well as give you a generation certificate for a Great Dane x Chi as they do NO checks whatsoever

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    1. Annie Macfarlane16 January 2012 at 18:21

      I heard it from the horses mouth - the managing director - that they will only register one litter a year. I am in no way condoning the DLRC or their practices but that came from Mrs Winters herself.. If its wrong then you need to take it up with her. She also stated that they don't register puppy farmed litter....but that is definitely not true. No knickers in a twist here Anon...I just think it proves that PDE was the force for change in the Kennel Club and they are becoming nervous about PDE2.

      I thought that Victoria Brown calling to confirm attendance at a meeting in Parliament regarding puppy farming was quite funny.....that wouldn't have been the one that Jemima was at then would it? They throw their toys out the pram and refuse to attend if Passionate Productions are present...lol Also, taking an eye certificate from the fax machine and advising that they had received the eye test results for a labrador so they would update their computer now.....oh lordy! I can just see them doing that all day....checking individual eye tests that is.... No, no knickers in a twist here - just amazed that the KC could produce such astonishing propanganda.... I like the term "infomercial" because that's exactly what it is! We can all sit back now....our pedigree dogs...sorry all our dogs - pedigree and crossbreed... are in safe hands....ROFL

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    2. Annie Macfarlane16 January 2012 at 21:05

      I would like to clear up this wrong information. I have queried Anon 09.34's statement with the Managing Director of DLRC and they assure me that they work within the government guidelines and will only register one litter in a 12 month period from any one bitch.
      No back to back registrations are permitted.

      Here is the text in response to my query.


      Dear Annie


      When a breeder joins our database a bitch is allowed one litter per 12
      month period.
      She must be well over one year old before she is bred from and cannot
      be bred from after the age of 8 years old.We follow the breeding and
      sales of dogs act,this is on our website and on our General code as
      well as ABS.
      However we can only monitor the breeders who are on our own database...
      obviously

      Regards
      D A Winters

      Why are the Kennel Club not adhering to this Act? After all the whole ethos of the Kennel Club is the health and welfare of dogs!

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    3. Annie why dont you ask the DLRC what health tests they use, or fund, and where they publish those results and how they are shown on their registration certificates?? and while you are at it tell us what happens to the profits they make too?

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  10. @ Dalriach--The film seems to be almost entirely about show dogs and breeders, in spite of show dogs being only a small percentage of the dogs registered with the KC.
    LOL And was PDE not all about Show Dogs and Breeders--is that not what most ethical show breeders have mentioned on here quite a few times only to be shot down

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    1. Annie Macfarlane16 January 2012 at 18:24

      Due to the fact that the KC are always advising us that showing is only a small part of pedigree dogs...it does seem strange there was no coverage of working dogs...apart from the dachshund that is! This would have been an ideal opportunity for them to show Jemima and her Bum Chums that we have it all wrong!

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  11. Job well done! Even my friends who despise PDE have admitted that this program would not have been created if not for PDE being released to the public. Kudos to you.

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    1. Agree with this. Kudos to the KC for reacting in a very pro-active way to the highly adversarial challenges posed by PDE. I have to admit I sit more on the 'despising PDE' camp side, not for its successes or indeed its intentions - which I find utterly commendable - but for the emotionally exploitative elements (Eugenics). Having said that, it's apparent that extremity was needed in order to provoke a shake up so perhaps I should learn a lesson from PDE's shock tactics.

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  12. "Sorry KC, I'd normally be interested in watching your video, but it's just so DULL!"

    yes much more interesting to see Nazi symbols and questions about incest thrust upon unsuspecting people and people in rumpled jackets with calling pedigreed dogs "mutants'

    .. so dull to see dogs and people having a good time with their dogs and children out for the day enjoying themselves with their pets... so dull to see a man who is improving his breeding stock.. and ever so dull to see Dr Crispin saying that progress is being made.. and so dull to see the laboratories and hear about the funding the KC does to ensure the health of all dogs..so dull to see the Assured Breeder Scheme beginning to work and hear how many more people are joining. Boring to hear about mate Select and how it may aid people to make better choices about breeding their dogs.. So dull to hear about ending puppy farming..
    I do agree that it might have been a good idea to have more working dogs, obedience and agility etc.. oh well good topic for Dogs-A Healthy Future 2

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    1. Hmmm

      When it comes to CONFORMATION they seem to keep referring to vets being involved in decisions about things such as breed standards.

      Are these vets trained by reading their big green veterinary guide to dog health?

      I suspect they are.

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  13. Oh My Annie Go register a litter with them, make up one and hey presto you got pup papers. Look through the stud dogs they let be advertised as well whilst you are there.

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  14. Look at this page of the DLRC and tell me they are ethical and far superior to the KC http://www.dogregclub.co.uk/puppy_ads.php Pups ready to go Xmas Eve, no mention of health tests and of course both parents are family pets so viewable. Lord Lordy Annie You have defo made me realise just what you seem to support and I pity poor Jemima with supporters like this behind her. DLRC was started by a Puppyfarmer-so I say no more

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  15. I don't think that Annie is claiming that the DLRC is more ethical or superior to the KC. However, that it limits a bitch to one litter a year IS better than is required of KC breeders registering puppies on the general register.

    As for Christmas pups... did you happen to check the KC's Puppy Finder to log how many ABS breeders had pups ready for Christmas? I did...

    Jemima

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  16. Annie seemed to be spouting about the fact they only registered 1 litter a year but Annie needs to actually look into the rest of their "ethics" As I said you can register whatever on there including "1 litter from your Great Dane then 6 months later a litter from same Bitch with different name" Infact they have already been found out registering a litter from a Rottweiler Stud dog that had indeed been dead for a few years Magic Hey

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  17. Anon, could you provide a link to the DLRC ethics where it says that you can register a litter from a dog and then six months register another one from the same bitch with a different name? I assume that as you've put it in quotes it must be in writing somewhere?

    And surely you're not claiming that the KC register is immune to cheating?

    Jemima

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    1. The DLRC 'ethics' DOES NOT limit a bitch to one litter per year!!

      It is mentioned on their so-called 'Accredited Breeders Scheme' BUT I am unsure what this scheme actually is - there's certainly not going to be anyone visiting breeders and policing that! (unlike the KC's Assured Breeders Scheme which does make visits to breeders homes and checks on health tests).
      The DLRC 'ABS' also allows for six litters to be registered from one bitch in her lifetime - the KC only allows a maximum of four.

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    2. Annie Macfarlane16 January 2012 at 23:59

      I can assure you that the DLRC have categorically stated that they will only register one litter from a named bitch in a period of 12 months. That comes from the people at the top. I am not making it up. When anon made that point I contacted them because, like you, when I read the the registration rules and regs it did not state this on there but it was mentioned in the ABS scheme. I don't want to go into KCAB scheme as this is not what is being discussed. I am stating a fact. If the KC want to change that rule then I would be delighted.

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    3. so what? why should bitches be limited to one litter per year?.. are you speaking of calendar year.. or jan-dec? they are already limited to four total litters.. and two c sections and ad naseum with rules and regulations.. soon there will be no dogs left to register.and those that do breed the "occasional; litter" which is what you call back yard breeders will have the best chance of producing pups because they will NOT fall under all of these ridiculous rules..and really won;t give a fig if they register their dogs or not.. the few that are left to breed the pedigreed dog will be charging thousands of dollars.. and be few and far between. and there will only be underground breeder and cross breeders who sell pups.. like is already so hard for good breeders that they are dropping out like flies.. but then that is the goal of the AR"s.
      It is shocking that none of you can understand the ultimate goals of this group led by the HSUS in the states and the RSPCA in the UK ( you know that guy who called pedigreed dogs "mutants") Even the KC is blind to this..
      the ultimate goal of these groups is to destroy the KC .. the AKC.. and yes even the DLRC.. most of you here are aiding and abetting them.. some of you innocently.. some not

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  18. I dfo not have to provide a link Jemima. Just go try it out and see what you can indeed do on that registry but Annie and yourself seem to think they are maybe Good?? because they state only 1 litter in 12 months

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    1. Annie Macfarlane17 January 2012 at 00:03

      Anon...neither of us have that that we think DLRC are good...we have merely pointed out that DLRC only accept 1 litter in a 12 month period from any named bitch and the kennel club will accept litters from bitches bred back to back on consecutive seasons. If the DLRC are as bad as you say, why are they only registering one litter when the KC will register back to back matings? If the KC were to change this rule, as I have said before, I would be delighted.

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    2. who cares if you would be delighted.. you know NOTHING about breeding dogs as seen in your previous posts

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    3. Annie Macfarlane17 January 2012 at 16:18

      I do know about animal welfare and if I was a dog breeder I certainly wouldn't be breeding my bitches back to back.

      The breeders that breed every 6 months or so from a bitch clearly have no idea of welfare! Perhaps if we communicated we could come up with a plan for better breeding and animal welfare - rather than trying to point score with every post. It does become quite tiresome.

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  19. Annie Macfarlane16 January 2012 at 23:50

    I'm not talking about DLRC ethics here. I am talking about the fact that the DLRC have advised me that they will only register one litter per year per bitch. I have said nothing about supporting any organisation but have merely pointed out that, while the KC is not adhering to the law, there is another register that is adhering to the laws on the breeding and sale of dogs. That is a fact that I have corroborated with DLRC. If you have any questions about their ethics then you will have to take that up with them.

    One has to ask why the KC is not adhering to the law and also ask what penalties there are for not adhering to the law set down by government? Why do other registries require to adhere to the law and the KC doesn't?

    As far as I am aware you can register one litter from your Great Dane with the KC and then 6 months later register another litter from the same bitch but use a fake KC registration paper! The KC do no checks.

    I reiterate, I am not supporting anybody here, I am merely pointing out that the KC, apparently the organisation whose ethos is the health and welfare of dogs, accepts litter registrations from breeders who have bred their bitches back to back, one after the other. That is a fact. I have checked with the management of DLRC and they have categorically assured me that they require 12 months between litters from a specific named bitch. It is just as easy to fake a pedigree with the KC, as it is with any other registration because registrations are based on trust....nothing else! I have proved that this system is flawed in the past with the KC.

    I have checked the Code of Ethics too and can see no difference between the KC and DLRC. The Kennel Club have already told me they cannot enforce their code of ethics. So, effectively, neither code of ethics is worth a job if it can't be enforced. I am stating facts....which it appears others can't supply in support of their allegations.

    DLRC also confirmed that they do not register cross breed dogs, so it would therefore appear that allegation is wrong too!

    There is no difference in the registries that I can see - apart from the fact that the KC accepts litters registered back to back, at each season.....and the DLRC have categorically advised me that they only accept 1 litter every 12 months from a named bitch. People that want to cheat the system can do it with either registry....and they will if they are so inclined.

    I trust this clears up any confusion as to my "ethics" - which is not the issue here...I merely state the facts!

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    1. so what happens if your bitch only has a season once every 12 months (rare I know but possible) but what is common that a bitch only has a couple of season every 18 months or so. Indeed whenyou get to some dogs like the Basenji, Mother Nature takes complete control.......well Annie what then?

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    2. Annie Macfarlane17 January 2012 at 12:35

      I am not the maker of the rule....I am merely commenting on the rule as it stands with the KC. I would have expected that anybody who has the best interests of their bitch at heart would not breed from her again in as little as 4 months time following a litter. To me, and this is my own personal view, that is highly unethical and is done without due regard to the bitch's health and welfare.

      My breed doesn't have 6 months seasons but, again, that is not the issue here! The issue is the current rule that the KC will accept litters that are bred back to back, one after the other and register them with no questions asked.

      I think you have to ask yourself...all of those that are berating me for highlighting this issue....is your bitch more important than a litter of puppies. I can't answer that for you; that is something that you decide.

      I support nobody that condones puppy farming or BYB...indeed it goes against everything I hold dear! No matter what anybody says or tries to insinuate here I am stating facts. I think it's a sad day when the organisation that "takes the lead" actually is lagging behind when it comes to basic welfare issues. Again, that is my own opinion of which, of course, I am entitled to.

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    3. If you are "stating facts' then if fear for the world.. what you state is so far from fact that the dog is chasing its own tail.. if you don't like the abs.. don't join.. if you don't like the KC.. don't register your dogs..all of your "bitching" is just that.. with so little knowledge of actual dog breeding that is not even funny.. it is dangerous to man and beast alike.
      to say that it is a decision between bitch and pups is bordering on insanity.. that is a decision to be made by the owner.. hopefully in conjunction with the veterinarian..since you cannot be at every single breeding that takes place ( although I am sure you would like to be.. just to make sure everyone else is living up to your higher ethical standards) you have no idea what is good for the bitch, the owner nor the offspring..
      difficult to understand you when you say I am stating facts in the same paragraph where you say you are entitled to your own opinion.

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    4. Annie Macfarlane17 January 2012 at 20:18

      I'm sorry I don't understand what you are trying to say here as your comments are all over the place. Are you saying it's OK to keep breeding your bitch at every season? Where have I said that it is a decision between bitch and pups? I have not. What I have said is...... do you consider your bitch's health and welfare to be more important than a litter of pups? By that I mean if your bitch's health is at risk by having another litter of pups at her next season....would that matter to you? Being that I am rubbish and you are such a expert breeder....why do you have to consult with a vet to get the answer to that? Would your morals and affection for your bitch not answer that question for you? I have a very good idea what is good for an animal...and breeding constantly at every season IS NOT! You really are testing my patience here with your somewhat silly remarks! I have commented that the KC rule means that you can register litters that are bred back to back without any questions being asked. My opinion is about the morality and ethics of breeding that way and by doing that it WOULD BE DETRIMENTAL TO YOUR BITCH. I do not think that anybody who breeds dogs is a good breeder if they breed in this way. Full stop! If you feel it is OK to breed your bitch continuously then you cannot expect me to agree with you - purely on moral and ethical grounds....I cannot! I do not see my pets as cash cows.

      This is the last time I am responding to these offensive comments. Basically, it doesn't matter what anybody writes....you just don't take the time to read anything properly and that may cause you great problems at some point in your life.

      I suggest you go off and have a wee sit down with a nice cup of tea; take the weight off your feet and calm down. Perhaps when you're calmer you will be able to read properly when the red haze disappears.

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  20. 20 lashes of each offense...hang them.. . and then throw the buggers in jail for life. Would that suit you?
    nah.. probably not..not enough punishment for such a horrible offense as to allow a person to decide on the very own how to manage their pets..
    and while we are at it let's toss those parents who dare to have a child one after another without waiting some prescribed amount of time on the fire as well.. how dare they actually make a decision on their own.. the government knows best how to dictate ( and I use that word not loosely) to you what you should do with your pets life.. and of course with you own as well.
    Your lack of trust in the human condition says volumes about you..

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  21. It’s gibberish.

    Who or what is the audience? Not enough education to be of use to the consumer. A journalist with no background knowledge would have to research the issues. A bit of a jolly along for breeders perhaps.

    According to the press release it is trying to get across 10 points within a 28 minute corporate presentation - that’s less than 3 minutes per issue. It would have been more effective to produce a series of 5 minute presentations and focus on one issue at a time.

    Clever idea, but badly implemented.

    I wonder, if the KC had a better communications strategy would less hate would be directed at the PDE team?

    H

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  22. My heaviest objections in terms of content:

    The Assured Breeders Scheme. It lacks teeth and an assurance only confirms that an organisation is doing what an organisation says it will do, it is not a guarantee of standards. The contracts aren’t in favour of puppy buyers. There is no minimum requirement for socialisation and habituation, so puppies are produced with behaviour issues. No insistence that puppies sold as pets are raised inside the home – raising the behaviour risk. No insistence that dogs with health issues aren’t bred from, just that they are tested.

    Limiting the number of litters. Without plugging the KC performance gaps, it just encourages scams. Already some breeders register more puppies than the genuine litter size, the extra puppies are “made-up” from a bitch that has exceeded her limit or are brought in from puppy farms.

    It’s a fundamental flaw to say problems have been fixed when they haven’t – it just breaches trust.

    H

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    1. Already some breeders register more puppies than the genuine litter size, the extra puppies are “made-up” from a bitch that has exceeded her limit or are brought in from puppy farms.

      says H.. and you know this how?

      Delete
  23. I'm bored after 6 minutes, but I have to say that it's a good thing they are bragging about the LUA Dals and that the one hobbitish gentleman actually said the words "some of these problems are most certainly conformation problems."

    I don't find the "We have always take the lead" argument very convincing. PDE caught them with their pants down and it's taken them this long to even make a response video? That's playing catch up, not leading.

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  24. Wow, Jemima, I'd be rather proud if I were you. You've gotten the KC Chairman to admit that people breed for conformation fads at the expense of breed health. That's quite a turn around from the "this is CORRECT! Superior even" that they said on film when confronted with the saggy and sad dogs before.

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  25. Oh, so disappointed. They pull out the "at least we're not puppy farmers" argument as the big close? Pathetic diversion.

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  26. I'm still utterly unconvinced by their Assured Breeder scheme; not least because the health checks are not mandatory, they're simply 'expected' and they're 'expected' not to breed from affected stock! It can easily lure potential puppy buyers into a false sense of security - they will likely presume that if the puppy is from an AB, the required health checks had been done, and definitely that they would have passed! Yet, the breeder can say 'from health-tested stock' and still the sire or dam could have failed!

    I also cross-checked half-a-dozen dozen Whippet Assured Breeders against pedigrees on the Whippet Archives (which anybody can do and it's far more accurate than Mate Select); they all came up with COIs greater than the average (for that breed) of 9% over 10 generations. Many of the COIs were in the 20s. Clearly 'Assured Breeder' does not mean 'breed for vigour'! I guess if the KC enforced that being a member of the ABS, meant breeding to below the average COI for that breed, very few people would participate.

    The Whippet is one of the few breeds that I am au fait with the breed databases for (other than Mate Select), which is why I have picked on them; I imagine that other Assured Breeders are doing exactly the same for their breeds.

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  27. Anon, its much the same with COIs in Irish Red and White Setters . The average COI for the breed given by the KC at around 16%, based on fewr generations, is much lower than if worked out from a full 10 generation data base, where it is over 20%. It is admittedly difficult in a small breed like ours with few founders to get any COIs below 10%, but there is no excuse for breeders producing litters with COIs of 35% and even higher. The Kennel Club does nothing about it, the only way will be to set a maximum acceptable COI for the breed and refuse to register litters above that figure. Setting a ceiling that applies accross all breeds doesnt work, the ceiling has to be set for each breed, and gradually lowered over several generations. If the breed really cannot get the COIs down because of a limited gene pool, then outcrossing is going to be necessary

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    1. if this is your concern then why not outcross now?

      Delete
  28. COI is a figure from a monment in time, inded 5 years, 10 years, 20 years ago many COIs could or and would of been much worse but with many show people importing new blood lines from aroudn the world this has improved,(yes you will always get a Yogi factor but they soon are ironed out. Indeed it is teh BYB and Hobby breeder and puppy farms who use the same dogs time and time agian who will have higher COI.

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  29. Anon 05:36: the accredited breeders with high COIs WERE show breeders. If you would like to check the figures for yourself, then it's very easy to do. Find the AB breeders off the KC website, check that they also show their dogs on ChampDogs or similar, look up the COIs of their litters on The Whippet Archives.

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  30. The ABS makes no difference! There are breeders who have been thrown off the scheme due to their poor ethics, and yet they are still allowed to register litters!

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  31. Jemima, as an interested Australian reading your blogs, I agree that it was well beyond time for looking at major health issues in the purebred dog. However, I find your comments a little lacking in balance when you consider that the KC has no legal authority with which to administer the purebred dog world. I would like to see more emphasis on the breeders who continue to breed and show problematic dogs, rather than a constant attack on the KC and blaming it for all things. Judges are the ones who can make a difference, why not look at the way they perform?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. "the KC has no legal authority with which to administer the purebred dog world."

      Not this crap again. The KC sets the rules for their registries and dog shows. This gives them tremendous power over people who care about registration papers and dog shows.

      Delete
  32. There is HOPE (:

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  33. i really like the new changes on these dogs the bulldog looks great with longer legs it looks so much more healthier! however i would like to see another documentary shown again in another 5 years and then again in 10 years because more needs to be done and more changes need to be done for the sake of these beautiful dogs. i think the german shepherd should be changed to the working dog, those show dogs look like the cant even run! no life for a dog even a show dog.

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    1. A documentry that shows the improvements.

      Delete
  34. Happy New Year to All! I haven't posted a comment for a while but have been around.

    I watched the video last night and I feel people are being particuarly critical. It seems as if no matter what the Kennel Club do, it will never be right for some people (I don't refer to Jemima here as she gives credit where it is due!) I also do have issues with the KC so no rose tinted specs here.

    Yes, the film was a glossy piece of PR, but given it was a corporate video funded by the KC, not a documentary, you would expect some trumpet blowing and not too much self critisism. The problems raised in PDE were not avoided, they were discussed and the message was there is still more to do.

    However, to all those who have posted in continual condemnation of the KC, they HAVE been at the forefront of addressing health issues for a very long time and no other organisation comes close. They have invested a huge amount of money into research which benefits all dogs, they were the first to introduce any sort of assurance scheme for breeders and as far as I'm aware, the only one that is 'policed'. They have campaigned against electric shock collars etc so they lobby for change. They licence shows where purebred dogs compete but they are far more enlightened than many foreign KCs because they have always permitted dogs of any parentage to compete in performance events and companion shows.

    Additionally, the critics seem to be conveniently forgetting that those on the video who are independant of the KC (Professor Crispin and the AHT) were very positive about what has been achieved so far and what the future prospects are.

    The KC has its flaws but I don't see any alternative organisations or charities who can claim to have done more - or crucially - would step into a breach left by the KC if it were not longer to exist.

    Is it so hard to conceed that while the KC might not be brilliant, it is by far the only organisation which is in a position to make a significant difference? Cooperation and engouragement works at all levels and I think Professor Crispin was 100% right when she said we all need to work together to improve things.

    Regards

    Julia

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  35. Everything is overwhelming, the issue, you guys and the people, and this blog! Its sad how all the education with our society is going down hill really rapidly, all in honesty you should never ever rely on a blog, this is why the world is getting dumded down, I don't trust your website. Same goes for anyother blog for any reason, this is all opinionated. As for your beloved viewers, get a life and a job. Help end this recession, I only trust edu sights, and heck Jemima, you should make a documentry about how stupid the internet is making everyone, and how awful England's government is too. All of you open your eyes. You so called people are telling me that this is the biggest issue?!, come on, this has been going on for years. I mean really? There is bigger trouble going on in the world than this, plus England = the worst place in the world to live in! In the United States there are probably more healthy pedigree dogs here than in England. Heck im more well off in the US than where you are, even in these tuff times. I wish I could go off to join the Amish, they have all their crap togehter.

    Sincerely,

    Mr. Sick and Tired.

    P.S I even dont care if you hate my comment either! because I don't have any intention to return to your blog that isn't even a offical edu website or certified credited website for that matter. That even has no real research, and to be honest the blog world is just of bunch of propoganda.

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  36. Mr Sick and Tired,

    I'm rather surprised, if you feel this way, why you even ventured onto the blog in the first place as you were not doubt aware that it would contain opinions, including yours! This is a blog about Pedigree dogs, not World affairs so it's reasonable to assume that Pedigree dogs wll be the subject under discussion. I fail to see anyone, whatever their viewpoint suggesting this topic is the 'biggest issue' facing Britain, but it is one we all care about therefore are perfectly entitled to be debating it.
    May I add, on the subject of education, seeing as this is something apparently dear to your heart, that yours appears to be somewhat lacking!!

    (Sorry Jemima - couldn't resist replying to this troll!)

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  37. Dear Annie Thought I would update you regarding the so called facts DLRC informed you of----You posted "
    DLRC also confirmed that they do not register cross breed dogs, so it would therefore appear that allegation is wrong too!" WELL SEEMS IT IS WRONG AS I POSTED BEFORE

    Advert below taken from their site

    cross breed
    Age: 7 weeks
    Colour: Tricolour
    Area: East Midlands
    Price: 400
    Cavapoo puppies Mum is a Tricolour Cavalier and Dad is a Chocalate Min Poodle. The puppies are Tricolour like Mum, with waves that are starting to curle. The puppies are ready now. They are regularly wormed and frontlined. Girl 400 pounds. Boy 350 pounds. Please email us your landline telephone number and the time of day you would like a call.

    Posted: 30 Days Ago

    ReplyDelete
  38. @ Anon Jan 29 10:18 AM, where in this advert does it say DLRC registered? It doesn't. So regardless of what you or I may feel about the DLRC it does not prove what you are trying to say. All it confirms is that they allow crosses to be advertised on their website.

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