I was sent this video today. It is of a Finnish dog and it dates from 2012.
But on this day, this 3.5yr old bitch won best female - VA1. Solholmens Jafri was the Finnish Siegerin (the top honour) in Finland in 2012.
If you saw any other breed walk like this, you'd take them to a vet, not run them in a courage test. That's leaving aside how very poorly this dog performs and yet has still been awarded Schutzhund titles. As my correspondent said in her email: "When looking at the courage tests here in Finland, many dogs have problems with their structure: it clearly prevents them from galloping and even jumping/charging in some cases. Even if the head wants to go fast and bite the sleeve, they cannot do it."
I am sad to see that this dog has been bred twice - once in 2011 and once in 2014. Her record on the Finnish KC database, shows that of her offspring to have been tested, all have hip grades of C/C - not great.
Hopefully this dog is not truly representative of the show dogs in Finland. Hopefully things have improved since 2012. Hopefully there are some better dogs in Finland still flying the flag for what a good GSD should be.
Because this? This has to stop.
The way the handler is constantly and angrily telling the dog to heel over and over would be comical if it weren't so sad. This dog's lack of speed appears to have as much to do with internal conflict as it does conformation. The dog is unsure of herself and seems more threatened by her handler than the decoy.
ReplyDeleteJust sad. She looks like she's running in slow-motion- in what alternate reality is that an effective gait for any dog, let alone a dog who's supposed to be chasing down and apprehending a target? She should have covered that distance in half the time. So much wasted movement and energy.
ReplyDeleteIf she was the best example they could manage that day, I'd hate to see the rest...
So sad.
ReplyDeleteCompare the floppy and unmotivated GSDs in the video to this Min Pin doing mondioring (Italian schutzhund trial): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFwkc3fXS4U. This dog is athletic, fast, courageous, responsive, and really grips that sleeve. I corresponded with the owner once, and he only trained the dog for fun, as it was not big enough to carry the 1 lb. dumbbell over a 3' jump--one of the "breedist" requirements of European protection sports, many of which only allow GSDs and Malinois. I would take this Min Pin over any GSD I've ever seen.
ReplyDeleteTruly remarkable! Ignore those teeth at your peril.
DeleteA lot of little dogs make excellent guard dogs, the pocket pistols of the dog world.
They should have a mini class and use a tiny dumbbell! There is definitely a need for such dogs where a bigger dog would be a nuisance and complete flop.
Just one example how this size up to about a shortish JRT size are extremely useful, is for keeping armed carjackers arms out of your car window (even partially closed windows) at stop streets and traffic lights. They have indeed saved lives this way in parts of the world where armed carjacking is rife.
A large dog would of course also have to flatten you to get at the target so not so useful in tight spaces like a car where you need that 100% mobility.
Fearless, remarkable recall, digital precision!
Dogital har har!
I have to wonder how much the faulty structure influences the dog's temperament and willingness to work. How can you have a courageous dog with true working ability when the dog cannot properly run, lunge, and grip a sleeve, let alone walk? Surely a dog that has been bred specifically to work has more potential to excel in Schutzhund and other active endeavors than a dog that is bred primarily to meet an arbitrary standard based on phenotype that is basically forced through this training/testing as a secondary requirement. I attended the UScA IPO3 National Championship this past November, and the dogs that I saw were superb, because they were bred for that work. Oh, and they were gorgeous. None had structures that impaired their ability to do the job. I've seen lots of American showline, as well as a few German showline dogs in person, and none compared physically to the working lines I've seen. They may as well be separate breeds. The showline GSDs are a joke to the working line folks.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, if the showline shepherds weren't physically being compromised, the delusions of the show fanciers wouldn’t bother me all that much. But they *are* physically compromised, at least by and large and to some degree. If showline folks would just accept the science of biomechanics and stop this BS about their dogs being constructed well and being “powerful movers”, and start working on breeding dogs to be truly sound, well – it would be a win-win for all parties and most importantly the dogs.
If there are any show breeders/fanciers still following, the over-reach you see with impressive side gaiting is inefficient, and the lower stationing of the pelvis is inefficient. These are conclusions I have read in reviewing Louis Donald’s articles, Linda Shaw’s explanations, and Dr. Fischer’s research. It is false to claim that just because a dog may take fewer steps that that makes them the more efficient mover. Fewer steps don’t necessarily equate with less energy consumed - you have to consider calories expended! The biological world revolves around energy efficiency.
I think the dog did poorly compared to other working GSD I have seen. A working GSD should look like a working Malinois. I found this youtube of a working GSD in the US army https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHs8R9IH-Cs. This dog was way more healthy and acted in more natural manner.
ReplyDeleteWhat a contrast.! Your video shows an altogether happier dog, that looks as though it's enjoying its work...
DeleteIf I walked out my front door and saw any of my dogs moving like this I would immediately think it had been hit by a car and rush it to the vets. These people simply have no clue what a healthy and sound dog should move like.
Delete100% agree with you there. And even if these dogs are not technically cripples yet they will surely become so moving like that their whole short lives.
DeleteAny dog I might have had that ended up walking like this were literally on their last legs, a couple of months or so left before they've died or been put to sleep. It's a hugely distressing thing to go through. That people actually breed for this is completely out to lunch.
Here is an other finnish gsd bitch working. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikKv1OoBXI4&feature=youtu.be (running after 3:40)
ReplyDeleteStill looks like a gsd, not like a malinois...
The first video would be very comical, if it wasn't so sad. Neither the owner nor the dog have any idea of what they are doing. And still they must have been training hard even to achieve this...
-Tiia
Thank you. That's easier on the eye.
Deleteof course you contacted the owner and the judges to see why the dog was put up. What did they say? oh wait....
ReplyDeleteYah that's not a dog running that's a dog sort of hopping. It also has no real interest or aptitude for the job.
ReplyDeleteA dog running, galloping opens out and bends its spine like a cheetah, it extends with ease and contracts like a rubber band, covers ground in a flash. What a traversty, the dog is indeed constructed so that it is in fact crippled. All wrong wrong wrong! No elasticity or scope at all.
Not many dogs even show dogs luckily have this crippling conformation, it's pretty much unique to GS show dogs, even a dachshund can open up better than these dogs can.
All I can say is that it shouldn't be allowed. It's truly debilitating and very definitely must lead to joint problems as the dog ages, even a day over prime. They look like dwarves from the waist down, it's truly hideous to deform a dog like this.
Soundness is just a word
ReplyDeleteThe poor girl looks tucked up and generally unhappy. In any other animal she might be assumed to have some internal problem, as well as anything structural...
ReplyDeleteI agree totally Nell, very sad.
DeleteThat dog looks like it's in pain. How awful they bred it.
ReplyDeleteThe criticism of this dog's hindquarters are, as usual, spot on: its sloping croup and kangaroo hocks are a sad deformity that prevents the dog from moving normally.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing sadder than that is the response pure-breeders have to such criticisms: proclaiming that the dog is their property, so they can do whatever they like with it. Such a distortion of private property completely ignores animal welfare, and has thus far been successful at preventing reform in how dogs and other animals are bred.
We all agree it's wrong to kick dogs, and that perpetrators should be punished. The qualzucht (torture breeding) seen here is just as bad, and should be viewed on equal footing with physical and psychological animal abuse. The dog fancy, like most institutions, has demonstrated that they it police itself to ensure that animals are bred in a humane way. It's time to make what they consider business as usual illegal.
Tragic, her rear legs are moving in circles instead of back and forward. Dreadful. The comments about lack of interest unmotivated are true, I think she is in pain and really doesn't want to participate because of the pain in her back and back legs. The owner is horrible, this macho bully boy tactics against a dog who clearly is unhappy is so unkind. Two litters, you are kidding, that is so stupid of the owner.
ReplyDeleteAll dogs from that kennel look pretty bad.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn3VghnNEpc
ReplyDeleteLet a 7 year old girl and a working GSD show them how it should be done.
Painful to watch. 8-(
ReplyDeleteThe ultimate tragedy is the blindness of those in the breed to accept what they have produced is not a comformationally well structured dog. That they cannot see this deformity but see it as a beautiful thing, and worse still as they will tell you over and over CORRECT is the ultimate tragedy. I always remember a SL breeder describing the very athletic 'working line' dogs as coyotes. Said it all really.
ReplyDeleteCoyotes are great though! Beautiful animals with lots of endurance. That's a compliment in my opinion.
DeleteYes, coyotes are designed for survival, so they move correctly and efficiently. If that is a slur, then woe be to all who are produced by that breeder.
DeleteCoyotes are facinating predators. But quite honestly you don't have to go quite so far back in Canine evolution to wolves and the like as magnificently efficient as they are to find fault with the show GS. Even a corgi can run more efficiently and effectively than this.
DeleteA corgi is also something that has its origins in herding of course however luckily for it no one has seen it necessary to turn it into a car crash victim with a bizarrely placed pelvis and crumpled hind end.
Even with its archodroplastic joints a corgi can open up a thousand times more efficiently than an American show GS. BTW a dog is designed to do more than just a spastic trot. Imagine if we were limited to doing a hideously odd crouched knock kneed, heels out wobble? People would assume we were polio victims, sufferers of some unfortunate disease.
Breeders of these dogs should be ashamed of turning this lovely dog into the mess it is, completely ashamed. That no one noticed the insidious progress from a functional dog to this creeping monster within the showing GS fraternity is just mind boggling.
Please don't ever give up reporting on GSDs Jemima....they are a real tragedy and perhaps over and over again if it is shown they may have to change.
ReplyDeleteYou are universally slammed by pedigree breeders. That shows you are doing something right. They so want you to shut up...don't ever. I love the GSD but couldn't touch a SL. Got my newest pup by choosing a champion WT dog. Pleased to say he has a hip score of 3 and elbows 0, and is a jack in the box! He would no doubt be 'spat on' by show breeders.....and that's good enough for me.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, this seems far more of a temperament issue than a structure issue. The dog is not at all motivated. The woman is also walking at an extremely slow pace while demanding an extremely close heel and that is going to force the dog to walk funny.
ReplyDeleteHere is a video of a German Showline dog doing Schutzhund - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa9_gP9XVOU
He is obviously very different temperamentally. He actually goes for the sleeve, and wants it bad enough to actually run.
Even moderately structured workingline German Shepherds can walk with the same motion, as seen in this video of a young dog learning heeling - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKHcZdq2SX0
Because the handler is moving slowly the dog is forced into an odd amble to stay in heel.
Not saying the example dog should have been given best bitch, and not saying I have much knowledge on the state of the GSD in Finland, but I wouldn't call her crippled structurally, though perhaps without the temperament that a GSD should have.
Also -- top Schutzhund titles? Really? She only has a SchH1, far, FAR from a top Schutzhund title. Please try to keep from exaggerating, as it leaves people misinformed, and many people who read on your blog that a "Crippled German Shepherd has top Schutzhund titles and show titles! This breed has gone to hell!!1!"
Good point re the Schutzhund title. Will amend.
DeleteThe first video appears to be another temperament test; it's not schutzhund. Jafri would probably act in a very similar way if she had better training. She seems to have about the same level of drive as the dog in this video.
DeleteYes this dog does not deserve Sch1 its completely meaninglless, there is also the danger the title can be used to promote its progeny.
DeleteMany of the showing worlds trials and purpose tests are also completely meaningless, designed specifically to in fact show what little apptitude and functionality is left in a breed which is not much. They are a sham on which dogs are then promoted and used for breeding to produce yet more useless mutts. The silly title that's the most worthy amongst silly titles Amricans seem so obsessed with for their dogs are the ones used to test a dogs suitability for visiting sick people in hospitals.
I agree that the temperament is not present in this dog for the tasks it's being asked to perform. But the structure is not there, either. Yes, even the most moderate, functional working line GSDs look a little odd when heeling during the IPO events - they're not walking at a normal pace for canines - but the running is where the structural deformity is really telling. And this dog looks nothing like the working line GSDs I've seen perform the same tasks.
DeleteJemima, How about trying to use crowdfunding to raise money, then pursue a private prosecution against the GSD breeders club for causing unnecessary suffering? Until the law steps in these people will continue down their own path.
ReplyDeleteChris R.
Actually I think it might be time for pedigree dogs exposed part three. There are all,sorts of issues left to be covered. Call it "qualzucht" PED part three.
ReplyDeleteI recently chastised publicly a well know entertainment personality who was waxing lyrical on National TV about how cute French Bulldogs were. He doesn't own one but implied he was in the market for one " they are so darling etc".......no clue, he was genuinely shocked to learn of all their problems and has now taken to GSs (sounds of hair being pulled out) though what he will actually end up with ......... Bit of an extreme and fickle leap in the other direction. I reckon there is always need for another PED, the situation can never receive enough publicity.
I just sent him this blog link, I didn't have the heart to do it to him again on the GS thing. Thing is he is trying to turn this getting a dog thing into a publicity stunt but hasn't it seems actualy thought about the breeds properly or their alternatives. I don't think many people do until its,perhaps too late......
This http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmKoira.aspx?RekNo=FIN61486/08&R=166.2 is the English translation of her Koiranet (Finnish Database) entry.
ReplyDeleteShe's far from being a top winner, just the one CAC, nor were her littermates stellar achievers, her littermates all had much better hip results though. Both parents were title holders. The COI of the litter was 0,
I notice you posted an awful US winner, but made no mention of the very unexagerated by comparison more functional bitch that recently won BIS at the US National (despite the white patch on her chest).
Who cares about a white blaze on the chest. Ridiculous.
DeleteI don't think the white chest is "wrong" as much as it is another example of the ridiculousness of conformation priorities.
DeletePrecisely, Anon. So many dog types from working backgrounds (including herding) have been split up and ruined by the dog fancies obsession with conformation and "correctness." Who cares if German shepherds have white on them or not? Who cares how many different forms of Belgian shepherd there are? Who cares if mastiffs are fawn or brindle? All of this is nonsense, and what's more, it shrinks the dog gene pool and makes dogs more prone to genetic disorders. This constant splitting and shaping has got to stop.
DeleteYou misunderstood! I was using the 'white chest' comment to illustrate that it is a minor cosmetic issue, obviously forgiven, despite the oft raised criticism of pedigree dog judging being focused only on cosmetic perfection.
DeleteThat's nothing to forgive, and conformation is not perfection. Variation in appearance is a normal part of any genetically diverse population. If you look at naturally occurring landrace dogs, wolves, and other animals, you'll see that although they're somewhat uniform in appearance, there are still differences among individuals. Thankfully, some pure breeds are still allowed to have this, e.g. Australian cattle dogs (heelers) can be blue or red, border collies come in black, brindle, merle, etc. The Old German herding dogs, from which GSDs descend, are still quite diverse, but now the GSD is sorely lacking in genetic diversity, making heritable disorders more likely. Dog fanciers should stop thinking of variation as a fault (or something to overlook), and start embracing it as healthy.
DeleteConformation mean how a dog is put together, there are healthy norms for this, so to say that there is no perfect conformation is incorrect. There are many faults in conformation that are quite rightly penalised. When a dog is hip scored the hip conformation is assessed against an ideal, even though minor deviations are expected and perfectly healthy. This applies equally to other features, be they what nature requires or what man has decided best suits our purpose. That does not mean that the puprpse when purely asthetic should go to the kind of extremes that compromise a dogs welfare. I am sure you do not want to see all breeds that have floppy ears, long and very short coats etc to no longer be bred ditto dogs of varying size, etc, or do you think all dogs should all conform to the basic wolf ancestor phenotype? I'm sure you don't as you mention various colour variants (and merle is not exactly healthy except in single dose). I probably agree with you in geenral that is why my choice of breed is one of the ancient and very moderate Spitz types.
DeleteI'm ashamed this dog is from my country. Truly disgusting. Not only is the dog not performing well, but the conformation is horrendous. I'm surprised they were allowed to breed this dog...
ReplyDelete