Unfortunately, you still find them in many other parts of the world.
This dog was bred by South African show breeder Este Dessels (Esmari Bulldogs) and the quote above is what she thinks of him.
No one should be breeding dogs that look like this. No one. Anywhere.
Sorry to see that a bulldog has joined the cast of Eastenders, although at least its a better one than this. Watch for a rise in popularity of the breed, if the dog appears much in future episodes of Eastenders
ReplyDeleteJust wondering whether you would set up a PDE page on Facebook so it is easier to keep up-to-date with blog entries.
ReplyDeleteYou can subscribe to the blog.. above right.
DeleteEver. Forgot EVER.
ReplyDeleteTime to start calling this 'beautiful breeding' for what it is. Cruelty to animals.
ReplyDeletePitiful isn't it?
Have you looked at the French Bulldogs too? Nostrils? I feel so sorry for the Bulldogs, to inflict such exaggeration is just plain shamfeful. I have just read their policy, incredible and they claim to be dog lovers, how, when puppies are shipped out and they claim not to sell to dealers, how do they know where the puppies are truly going to live. Words so cheap, P.Burns yes Ever, Forgot EVER. Poor dogs and in that heat too.
ReplyDeleteBy not selling to dealers they go to homes where they are part of a family have go to her gallery and check where her puppies goes to and the lives they live.
DeleteHow did Grant get his bulldog Pandora to the cape ??? flying or driving
@Georgina "Have you looked at the French Bulldogs too? Nostrils?" Uh have you seen their FACE? It looks like someone removed the almost entire middle section of their nose (not all of them, but enough to disturb me)!
DeleteI saw two female English Bulldogs, one is named Fire on Ice and the other Lady Sufera. I'm sorry to the lady who bred them, but when I saw them my eyes nearly popped out of my head. (Too me) the face skin looks so drippy I was nauseated. I just switched to the boys tab and I saw Wessenhof Lord MC Alister, Wessenhof Lord Ivan is possibly just as bad. I literally SHIVERED in horror when I saw Alister's photo. The more I see the worse I feel.
Este should have gone to Specsavers
ReplyDeleteyealousy makes you nasty
DeleteCome on anon 1201, just look at the photographs of the dogs above and on the breeders webpage. They are just not what a responsible, intelligent breeder should be striving for, if you are in contact with her ask her to rethink her breeding plans. If she is influential in the breed in SA her actions will spearhead the start of healthier bulldogs and frenchies who will have a quality of life whereas now, they are disabled little souls.
Deleteyes bur unforgently specsafers wont be able to help you, that photo was posted by his owner that had him for 4 years with no health issues and basically you attack the owner that clearly loves her dog
DeleteAnon 1021, What happened to the bulldog after 4 years?
DeleteNobody is attacking anyone. We are judging the dog, judging the fitness of the breed.
Gobsmackingly horrendous. The flesh above his nose looks like a mutation.
ReplyDeleteTo purposefully create a freak of nature and praise it as beautiful is to be in the throes of a mental illness. Even more tragic is the supporting dog culture that either directly encourages and rewards this or by turning a blind eye commit a sin of omission against dogdom. The emperor's new cloths indeed.
ReplyDeleteat the end of the day, normal everyday people (outside of the cult-like dog breeding community) can see how the dog is deformed and mutated. These dogs are not "beautiful" at all but are mutated . If we stop purchasing from these crazy breeders they will soon have to change their ways...everyone should just adopt from shelters.
Deletemy mind nearly exploded trying to work out the relationships of the pedigrees on those dogs. im sure one of those was matted to his grandaugher who was also his sister but my head was spinning by then so I may have been wrong.
ReplyDeletewhere did you see the pedigree of this dog ???
DeleteIf you look on the breeders website, highlighted above you can see the rest of her stock plus pedigrees... G
DeleteIt would be nice if the program, Eastenders, did have a bulldog on sometimes, and have the cast ask the each other, then a veterinarian, why is their dog having trouble breathing? What can be done? And have the veterinarian cast member give real figures for how much it cost to repair the internal problems in the bulldog. For the good of the public, and the spread of factual information important to the public.
ReplyDeleteThen next year, or a few months on, the cast might like to deal with bulldog passing gas, because not all of the inherited problems are where you can see them.
Then the cast can deal with retching odor, but not from gas this time as assumed, but from rot in skin folds. Then the cast can deal with sorrow, during what should be times of joy, as the bulldog, again has surgery - remember to get the truthful cost from a real veterinarian so that the public can learn the truth.
Then we can have the heat stroke episode, after a little walk to the park on a fine day. Let's not cheat the fans by hiding the sticker price on that one either. And let's show realistic views as people deal with the possibility of the bulldog dying, make sure the person who has been cleaning out his skin folds twice a day since the skin surgery (paying for the dog to get a face lift and a butt lift) episode, has real mixed feelings leak out about the bulldog possibly dying.
If my typing this comment gives me any copyright on it, I happily give it up into public domain. I would love someone to buy an extreme unhealthy breed, and have it star in a program where what happens to bulldogs in real life, is shown as happening to the bulldog actor.
BRILLIANT comment!!!!
DeleteI noted on a different thread on the same Fb page, a discussion about a lady who recently lost a bulldog very young. In the thread, the comment was made by a local (South African) breeder (comment verbatim) :
ReplyDelete"Do some introspection, do you have room to be loved unconditionally and have a breed with character like no other. High Reward indeed....like life.... like Investments.... simple principle rings true....HIGH REWARD....HIGH RISK. BIG QUESTION TO ANSWER.....DO YOU HAVE THE RISK APPETITE TO ACQUIRE THE MOST WONDERFUL FRIEND AND COMPANION YOU WILL EVER HAVE? ONLY YOU CAN ANSWER THAT.....Truth be told all brachycephalic breeds including French Bulldogs and Boston Terriers have these challenges, as well."
So we have a bulldog breeder who thinks he's an investment analyst. I suspect the analogy exists in his mind purely because he (like so many other breeders) appear to think of their dogs and breeding merely as "an investment", rather than sentient companions and friends. And that maybe is a pointer to the real reason many people are going into breeding - despite the disclaimers they offer.
The hypocrisy of the statement is evident when the selfsame breeders attempt to defend what they are doing by claiming that they're "bettering the breed". Ouch. In the case of brachycephalic breeds, I consider "bettering the breed" to be an oxymoron. If breeders were actually doing something to rectify the problems in the breed, it wouldn't be a "high-risk" breed, would it?
Butt-head bulldog, gotta have one?
ReplyDeleteLook what Este says in her "Owner's Guide':
ReplyDelete"Bulldog's/French Bulldog's overheat easily. ... If your Bulldog/French Bulldog begins to overheat and starts to bring up phlegum you must act quickly ... If your Bulldog/French Bulldog goes down from heat exhaustion, and his tongue turns blue. Wet him with cold water or cool him with ice. Lay him in ice or cool water if you can. You must bring his body temperature down. You can put ice up his anus if necessary."
(You can WHAT?!)
She goes on to say...
"Bulldog's /French Bulldog's have elongated palates and sometimes vomit or bring up phlegum. This is normal."
...and...
"Hypertrophy and prolapse of the gland of the nictitating membrane (cherry eye) is common in young dogs. ...the red mass swells and protrudes...and there is a mucopurulent discharge. ...it eventually often remains prolapsed. Because it is a major tear gland, it should be preserved if possible; the gland should be replaced and anchored with sutures although specialist seem to suggest that partial excision should be avoided. this is exactly what often happens..."
...neatly omitting to mention that Cherry Eye is a HEREDITARY condition common only in a few breeds, that she is knowingly breeding into her dogs.
Definitly uninformed if you do research on the breed aswell as any flatnose breeds you will find the same information so if you buy one and did not do your research it is your problem this is not a breed for any person who does not want to put in time,effort and much caring and loving that is why they are called MAN MADE dog and you as buyer are not forced by anyone to buy this breed. Wake up
DeleteIn reply to Anonymous 12:07, all domestic dogs are 'man made', but that's not why brachycephalic breeds have problems. My dogs are 'man made' (like all other domestic dogs) and I put in time and effort and love and care - but not in dealing with health issues which are the result of corrupted breed standards and inbreeding. I would never willingly acquire a dog with those issues, because I think it's unkind (morally wrong, in fact) to breed them.
DeleteBrachycephalic dogs like the bulldog have problems not because they are 'man made', but because of what they have been bred to look like. To appeal to caveat emptor (buyer beware), is ethically questionable because a dog is not like a shoddily made item of clothing. It's a sentient being which can feel pain, fear and distress.
I would have thought that by now anyone who reads this blog would have realised that breeding animals who are bound to have health issues by reason of their conformation is just not on. But clearly not. Nope, according to Anon 12:07, any fallout is a problem for the owner. Never mind for the poor bloody dog.
Bex
I have been watching your conversation Sandra Van Wyk for the past 10 days on attacking breeders (who are you) because i have never seen anything bred by you or your groopies. I bought a dog from Este Dessels she is the love of my live and i could not have asked for a better companion. Did you ever whent to Este kennels,what do you know about her...except for atacking somebody she is a young lady that breeds her dogs look after them herseld (not hired helped) i stayed with her for 2 days before bringing my baby home you ar a viciouse person that has got nothing better to do with your live. She feeds her adult dogs herself,she brushes them clean ther wrinkles,clean their kennels herself hasent been on holiday for 12 years because she does not sleep away from home due to her dogs. I sa all her certifacates best child handler,best jnior handler when she ws still a child she no longer is a child but a young woman now.
ReplyDeleteShe raise her own litters do ...do you ??? waking up every 2 hours feeding her puppies for the first week then every 3 hours for the next 2 weeks and then go over to 4 hourly feedings without any help whatsoever. Maybe you havent got the guts to do that or maybe you are yealous and leave the work(???) to hired help. If you are married did you had children ??? did you do test for genetic problems before you had problems or did you just closed your eyes and hoped for the bes...i am asking this question as i work in a neonatal icu where you see the most hartbraking problems and parents blaming themselfs and after a battery of test and test nothing showed up in the parents so whos fault is that. Anything is possible in nature and all the websites that i studied before i decided in buying a bully warns you this is a man made breed and the same problems occure even in pekingese,pugs,shitzu and quite a few other breeds.
Also comming back to the breeder you can go through her files all her dogs are fully innoculated up to date they only eat veterinary approved dogfood.are dewormed every 3 months and are treated monthly against tick and flea infestation and can be proven by medical bills and her vet. Get a life or get your facts straight before you call her a puppy mill, or if you have the guts why dont you go and visit her...this is a challenge to you and your groopies.
So you are saying she is more to be pitied than censored?
DeleteHer life sounds so over burdened. A young women should be out enjoying herself, not loving so many dependent dogs that she makes herself their slave. Does she get to go out and have ANY fun at all?
When you visited her, did you notice anything which she could change that would free her?
Your response highlights the tragedy of the situation. You love your dog, as is to be expected yet that dog is more likely to suffer throughout it's life due to the decision of the breeder to breed avoidable defects into the dog. Don't you owe it to those you love to avoid problems and lengthen it's life whenever possible.
DeleteDo a google search for "Dogs - A Healthy Future" and watch the video made by the Kennel Club at around 15 minutes. A bulldog breeder but one who recognized the fact it was cruel to continue breeding for the same traits as in the past. As the video pointed out.. Health first.
Why are you defending cruelty? This breeder has a choice. She doesn't have to inflict this hideous suffering on dogs. She can quit breeding them the world will still turn without Bulldogs and these poor creatures will no longer have to suffer to satisfy the ego of the dog fancy.
DeleteOn this post, is anyone being called a puppy mill. I don't think that that is what this post is about.
DeleteI think this post is about many purebred dogs being breed to suffer because of extreme type, of which this bulldog is being used as an example of extreme type (which some people are proud of).
This post isn't about puppy mills.
Anonymice in defense of this South African breeder... no one is saying that she is bad at what she does. That is not the problem. The problem is that what she does is worse than bad, it´s indefensible.
DeleteOne must admit a certain bizarre admiration for the ability to turn the grotesque nosewrinkle of....i cant in good conscience call them normal...bulldogs into an actual foreheadshelf, especially in conjunction with the breeders ability to willfully consider this "progress". If only we could tap into selfdelusions such as these, all our green energy problems would be solved..
ReplyDeleteThe phrase you are searching for is "Klingon forehead"?
DeleteLike in "peke tribble".
We could make a spoof of a 1950s sci-fi movie and call it "They came from outer space, and they were Dawgz!
Great description.
DeleteMaybe someone put this dog over an Newfie bitch and backcross to see if they can produce a fully Klingon dog! I'm sure there'd be a market!
Christ on a bike......don't encourage them.
DeleteWhy not? They always turn the other way when I offer suggestions ;-)
DeleteOh dear 9:14 you are clearly cross. And I am pleased that your little bulldog has given you so much pleasure. However, some of the points you have raised above are why we are so cross. "waking up every 2 hours etc" is that because the puppies were born by caesarean? "cleans ther (their) wrinkles", her advice about cherry eye, overheating - ice cube placed in the anus, her advice that she will not accept back a puppy that has been shipped to an unknown destination, the fact that she ships puppies at all is abhorrent. The breeds you mention in addition to Bulldogs do not have to suffer and have special treatment because they are bred with special needs. All of the other procedures you highlight are what any dog lover would do for their much loved dogs. What other dog lovers do for their much loved dogs when breeding is to avoid deliberately, calculatingly, knowingly breed for such gross exaggeration. Just look again at the stud dog above. Can he see clearly, can he hear, can he scent, can he eat, can he move easily, the skin folds, can he do any of the above comfortably? Just look at that fat lump between his eyes, what is the point of that, really look again what is the point. His mouth is so wry he can't possible chew his food so his digestion is severely compromised. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for breeding dogs to suffer in this way. Her French Bulldogs, look at their nostrils, they are closed. In a hot country the nostrils need to be as flared as possible so that they can breathe in as much as air as possible. You at least took the time to visit the premises and collect your puppy and the breeder was kind and invited you to stay. But that completely negates what she is doing to her dogs by breeding them to such ridiculous, dangerous exaggerations. If you have a good relationship with her perhaps you could gently talk to her and tell her what we see and fear for her dogs, try and make her understand that if she had only two of the conditions she inflicts upon her dogs how miserably painful her life would be, because her dogs are disabled. They don't have to be disabled if she started to remedy her breeding programme for less exaggeration. I don't doubt that the temperaments of her dogs are delightful, not for one minute do I suggest that she gives her dogs the best life she can, but she can give and do more for her dogs by rethinking her breeding programme. Please try and help her dogs by gentle persuasion. Your work means you are a compassionate kind person, use your skills to better her dogs lives, please.
ReplyDeleteJust to say all good breeders shpuld for the first 3 weeks be on hand for their bitch and puppies to make sure all is well, I am awake for the best part of a week apart fron cat naps to ensure mom does not get eclampsia etc as that can turn very serious very fast. Anyone who just leaves mother to get on with it are just as bad as the breeder above.
DeleteAbsolutely right, it is why I cannot understand how anyone can have more than one litter at any one time. I loved the rare litters I had but it was exhausting, for all the reasons you mention above. Your last sentence says it all and it highlights that there must be a lot of suffering dams out there if anything but the above is offered to them for their safety and that of the puppies.
Deletesorry how many frenchbulldogs did you see on her website with small nostrils or is it because yyou cannot import yourself rahter buy from breeders in Sa with blue genes,and deaf genes witch is prefferable please advice. 3 weeks shame so after 3 weeks they must tend for themself or the servant???
DeleteHis mouth is not wry asked the lady that posted the photo to take one from the front. If it is (wry) you mean it has a underbite please show me that on that dog after obtaining a full frontal photo
DeleteUm about the small nostrils bit she has a link to this article thingy on her site...http://www.bulldogdvm.com/Pages/breathing.aspx
Delete"First, a bulldog can have nose holes that are too small. We call this stenotic nares. The openings in the nostrils are too small and the sides of the nostrils are pulled in with inhalation making the openings even smaller."
In another part of her site "Vomiting
Bulldog's /French Bulldog's have elongated palates and sometimes vomit or bring up phlegum. This is normal. If your Bulldog/French Bulldog is doing it constantly when he is not overheated or excited consult your Vet " Her saying vomiting is normal sort of disturbs me....
What? a breeder who gives vaccines? Why, she's Jesus Christ returned to earth! Not at all: any breeder who doesn't vaccinate should be avoided like the plague. You're not defending Este very well.
ReplyDeleteYou especially don't defend her well when you talk about her "raising her own litters." I've done this many times, not because I'm a breeder, but because I was a veterinary assistant. (It doesn't take "guts" to do this, by the way; it takes an alarm clock.) I got up every two hours and fed pups and kittens, but only because something had happened to their mothers. It's not normal, natural, or preferable to raise animals this way.
It sounds to me like you're saying Este has to hand raise her pups because their heads are so huge and misshapen they have to be delivered by C-section. This is true of most English bulldogs, but that doesn't make it all right. It certainly is not, as you seem to believe, meritorious or heroic; it's tragic.
If I were you and I wanted to help Este's reputation, I'd shut up. You're not helping.
Clearly you are misinformed bulldogs tend to llie on their puppies because they are clumpsy leave a litter with its mom without supervision and see how many pups you have left.. And yes i have visited breeders that cannot produce innoculation cards or cards that shows vaccanations that has been done 2 years ago and if you ask about it you are told they forgot the put the sticker on the card ??? do you believe that. and when you turn the card around no record of deworming. You know what is cruelty to dogs, dogs that are just left to fend for themself because the owners are working and maybe if they are lucky when the owners return from work they will get a pat on the head. Concern yourself about thousands of dogs that must fend for themself no food no water no owners and offer some of your time that you spend here at your local dog rescue centre for free then you can make comments. and go to kusa's website and look at the bulldog standard not american bulldog standard so you shut up.
DeleteWell let's look at the KUSA breed standard (finally updated to the current UK standard after howls of protest from SA bulldog breeders). And you tell me in what way the dog above meets it. I have capped up the relevant bits.
DeleteHead and Skull
Skull relatively large in circumference. Viewed from front appears high from corner of lower jaw to apex of skull; also broad and square. Cheeks well rounded and extended sideways beyond eyes. Viewed from side, head appears very high and moderately short from back to point of nose. FOREHEAD FLAT WITH SKIN ON AND ABOUT HEAD SLIGHTLY LOOSE AND FINELY WRINKLED WITHOUT EXCESS, NEITHER PROMINENT NOR OVERHANGING FACE. From defined stop, a furrow extending to middle of skull being traceable to apex. Face from front of cheek bone to nose, relatively short, SKIN MAY BE SLIGHTLY WRINKLED. Muzzle short, broad, turned upwards and deep from corner of eye to corner of mouth. Nose and nostrils large, broad and black, under no circumstances liver colour, red or brown. Distance from inner corner of eye (or from centre of stop between eyes) to extreme tip of nose should not be less than distance from tip of the nose to edge of the underlip. Nostrils large wide and open, with well defined vertical straight line between. Flews (chops) thick, broad and deep, covering lower jaws at sides, but joining underlip in front. TEETH NOT VISIBLE. Jaws broad, strong and square, lower jaw slightly projecting in front of upper with moderate turn up. OVER NOSE WRINKLE, IF PRESENT, WHOLE OR BROKEN, MUST NEVER ADVERSELY AFFECT OR OBSCURE EYES OR NOSE. Pinched nostrils and HEAVY OVER NOSE ROLL ARE UNACCEPTABLE AND SHOULD BE HEAVILY PENALISED. VIEWED FROM FRONT, THE VARIOUS PROPERTIES OF THE FACE MUST BE EQUALLY BALANCED ON EITHER SIDE OF AN IMAGINARY LINE DOWN CENTRE.
Veterinary assistant that explains everything ......rather promote mongrels and then why did somany of your clinics mothers passed away after birth that you had to handfeed them nobody said handfeed the babies it was said taking them out of their box placing them by the mother and sit there untill they finished feeding. 95% of bulldogs goes for a c section so get your info correct.
DeleteWell, anon 9:35 you are not looking at the pictures are you? Please put aside your anger and defence of this breeder and see what we see. JH has outlined the breed standard and if you break down the description, please tick off where you think the bulldog above and those on the breeder's website fits. Please look at it in an unbiased way, in your job when you see a deformed baby born how do you feel for the baby and his parents, I imagine with a great deal of sorrow and compassion. Your job can only be done by special people who are true humanitarians, my sister is a nurse in Australia, so I understand. And we liken what we see with bulldogs in the same way but in their case they don't have to be deformed or disabled if breeders chose to stop. The breed can exist and it can be in a similar form and it can be healthy and happy and safe. I have seen a bulldog on youtube bouncing on a trampoline, voluntarily, throwing himself about and just having the best time, He couldn't have done it if he had been the same conformation as above. If one were to take a step back and look at your words, Bulldogs to survive when baiting bulls had to be agile, if they were clumsy they were dead, they had to be able to see and hear where the bull was, they had to be muscular and to be that they had to be able to exercise and to exercise they must be able to breathe. The dog above could do none of those things easily I suspect. Even the standard JH has shown for a "healthy" bulldog are suspect for a pain free life but it is a step for less exaggeration and it needs a great deal more modification. The concern shown on this blog is about the dogs and betterment of lifestyle not a personal attack on the breeder who has slipped into a world of over exaggeration and that is damaging for dogs. Please join us and try and persuade her to modify her breeding programme and use less exaggerated dogs. Please?
Deletehas any one even spoken to the owner off this dog I guess not !!!! this just proof's my point
Deleteif one off you did then you will have find out what I did this stud is 3 years old all most and had not gone under any surgery as to he is healthy !!! that is right Healthy what because he has excess skin fold on the nose he mast be sick hahahah don't make me laugh and as far as I know this stud is in a pet home one should always remember jealousy makes one nasty and just one more thing we are in South Africa not the uk
Do I understand correctly? Since the (British) KC changed their standard for they Bulldog, since it is a British breed, the FCI shows will all judge Bulldogs by the new British standard? So it behooves other countries who are FCI accepted to changed their Bulldog standard, so their Bulldogs can compete in FCI shows?
DeleteBut the (American) UKC and AKC are not members of FCI, so this doesn't effect their shows?
Forgive me, but perhaps you are confusing jealousy with something else?
DeleteIn my case, it is abject horror. Horror at the abomination of that picture which is supposed to be representative of a pet dog. A beloved companion that is supposed to be bred for health, temperament and a long life.
These posts make me very sad indeed. Because I am unfortunately starting to truly believe that the people who actually want to breed and then care for sick and disabled dogs, such as this exaggerated Bulldog, are perhaps sick themselves.
Perhaps it makes them feel valued at having the responsibility of a sick animal? I’m not condoning this, just trying to empathise and understand the nature at work. It reflects a sickness that we don’t yet understand in human beings, that is being inflicted on our companion animals. Despite evidence of directly harming the animal’s health and welfare in continuing to breed for exaggerations such as in the Bulldog here, this breeder still continue to inflict pain, suffering and cruelty by insisting that the animal is ‘special’. Therefore, only ‘special’ people can care for it. I am beyond any sort of rational explanation to this absolutely disgusting sentiment, looking at the picture at that sad and pathetic excuse of a dog.
Einstein once said that the definition of insanity is repeating the same action but expecting different results. The fact is, people in dog breeding repeat the same thing and don’t seem to expect anything different despite the bucket loads of evidence that the animals are suffering due to their actions.
Cognitive dissonance? Munchausens by Proxy?
Healthy my dear god how can some call a dog thats very right to breath freely is taken for a look some stupid human decided was correct for a Bulldog HEALTHY.
DeleteI would be 100% that dog snores like a freight train & suffer discomfort from joint pain like all dwarfs do. Healthy dogs run & play & for more than a few minutes to show on youtube how "healthy & happy" their Bulldogs really are.
Healthy dogs birth their own dogs damn healthy dogs do not need human assistance to breed.
Maybe it is something like Munchausens by Proxy.
Are other breeders of Bulldogs, Pugs, etc, any different?
ReplyDeleteIn contrast is husky mothers who dig themselves a den by tunneling into the earth. Then when they are in labor, they run out into their den. She leads the puppies up to the house about 6 weeks later. Full sized litter, so few, if any, puppies didn't make it.
ReplyDeleteWhich is to say, that the next several weeks involve intense socialization, house training, etc.
DeleteWhy is Sandra Van Wyk mentioned here? And has Anon 914 been internet stalking her for 10 days?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.esmari.co.za/index.php/need-to-know/policies
ReplyDeleteThey will ship their bulldogs from Joburg International? Don't most American airlines refuse to ship brachy breeds due to the risk of them dying en route?
How do you get a bulldog from Johannesburg to Capetown ??? with a wheelbarrow. also puppies that fly are been kept 2 weeks longer before flying or would you rather have them drivin 10 hours by car ???. And the best airline to fly puppies in Sa is Britiish Airways she never said to fly them to America
Deleteone should always remember jealousy makes one nasty
DeleteNot just American airlines, most airlines won`t accept brachy breeds as " checked baggage " . Some still allow them in the cabin if they are under a certain weight,
DeleteAnon 0948 my point about shipping puppies to anywhere in the World is that a responsible breeder doesn't truly know where that little puppy is going to end up, that is my point not which airline will accept them and that the breeder keeps the puppies for a further two weeks after normal sale date. Neither of the last two points are relevant to this discussion. What is relevant is the appearance of this breeder's stock. You are lashing out aggressively and making statements that are doing the breeder a great disservice. You are in contact with the breeder, have you spoken to her about this discussion, perhaps she would like to use her own words, express her own opinion, rather than rely on your overly passionate words. Can I ask you again to just look at the photographs, is that dog really only 3 years old? Does a dog have to have operation before this age to prove that he is sick, that no operation indicates healthy stock? Is the measure stick for health within the breed to operate or not to operate, does that mean dogs have to suffer more because to prove healthy stock a necessary op is delayed so the breeder can brag that their stock is healthy, 'til it slips out of the limelight and can then go under the knife? If I was the breeder of this stock I most certainly would not want you to be making statements on my behalf, absolutely not. I do not wish to be unkind to you but until you calm down you are best to step back from the discussion.
DeleteWhat the hell is this jealousy crap all about??? Who in their right mind is jealous of a dog that look like that??? The ones to be jealous of (if being jealous is in ones nature) are the ones that could be capable of doing their original job (definitely no suggestion of reinstating bull bating just a dog that's fit for function) what a suggestion of being jealous....what a crock of shite!!!
DeleteI know it's customary to speak to people on the internet like they're a piece of dirt. But I like to think of this blog as a place where *reasonably* civilised debate can happen. Please try to be civil.
DeleteAnonymous poster whom believes that those of us who don't like and agree with the state of the bulldog are jealous and nasty, please could you explain your rationale??? Still don't think they will bother to reply, do you Jemima?
DeleteJealousy? You couldn't pay me to own a dog like that.
DeleteI've seen personally the difference of a well bred English bulldog and a badly bred one. I've learned from my own experience what a dog with great conformation can do,which is why I no longer desire heavy set dogs. Actually caring about a dog and not just its appearance will save you in the long run. I never thought the breeder was actually neglecting dogs,but she's supporting unhealthy and miserable conformation all for the sake of appearance,and appearance only. That is selfish no matter how much care and money she puts into those dogs.
I`m not afraid to say whats wrong with my favorite breeds,because I do care about their future. Even if it means owning a dog that is no longer that impressive or cute eye catcher.
I`m just shocked how a breeder can be proud of being the breeder of that poor animal.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 30 December 2013 09:35: So I was wrong that most English bulldogs come into the world by C-section? Better tell Google. I was not wrong in saying that a breeder who doesn't vaccinate or worm should be avoided like the plague. It isn't a superhero breeder who does these things; it's a responsible one. Deworming and vaccines are the *least* a breeder can do for his/her pups. Este doesn't get a prize for that simply because bad breeders exist.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm wrong about the C-sections, why continue to breed animals that are such clumsy, terrible mothers they roll on and crush their own offspring?
And since you've decided to drag the red herring of rescue into the discussion, I have never purchased a dog from a breeder, only gotten them from the pound. I was a veterinary assistant for ten years and I helped raise and home a fair few dogs and cats. I took many home myself. I didn't do that "for free," but I did it for damned cheap because vet. assistants don't get paid much. If I'd been doing other work, I'd've been able to live in a much nicer place and fashion.
I find it interesting that it's OK for Este to make money selling pups but not for me to make money helping them--I should have been helping for free. I'm not going to participate any further in your "doggie rescue contest" because it isn't the topic of discussion.
The topic is that photograph. Seriously, I can't believe anyone can look at the abomination above and see a normal, healthy dog of any breed.
Laurel, Why should breeders who don`t vaccinate be avoided like the plague.
DeleteStudies have shown that all this excessive vaccination can , in fact , do more harm than good to dogs. Please don`t get me wrong, i am not saying that you shouldn`t vaccinate your dogs , but after what I have experienced myself ( pups getting seriously sick and 2 died , shortly after they had their shots & one of my older girls had a seizure after she got the spot on treatment for fleas , ticks ) I believe that we are doing it too much. I read somewere on the internet that you can have a titer done to check how much antyibodies your dog has for various diseases, and based on the results you can decide wether you should vaccinate or not.
Many breeders don't vaccinate as they do not want to use different vaccines than the new owners. No point starting a course of vaccines when the new owners will use a different vet and vaccine and have to restart anyway. This has the potential to do more harm than good.
DeleteWhy do so many purebred dog discussions turn emotional?
ReplyDeleteThis whole thread could reasonable be stated in a few lines, like this:
Breeder: This is how I make my dogs.
Others: We judge your dog to be too extreme.
Breeder: He does well in shows here.
Others: We believe in breeding all dogs to a fitter, healthier form.
Breeder: I am not going to change.
Others: Please breed dogs that can run and breathe, and play without pain and stress.
Breeder: I am free to breed as I please. Good bye.
Yes. It could become a template for all future blog posts. Problem is, breeders feel they are being 'attacked'. Why is that? Guilty complex? God syndrome? Who knows! The fact is breeders are accountable for their actions, yet some seem to react as though they are beyond reproach. They are not! Any sensible breeder will continually review their practices in light of education and knowledge. Problem is, there don't appear to be too many sensible people in dog breeding.....
DeleteThe K.Cs rules are most definite that responsible dog breeding can only take place within the K.Cs, following their protocols and learning from their expertise. The rules place ALL dog breeders worth the name in a single distinct, isolated body.
DeleteThere is no alternative. So, to have outsiders critique the results is going to be seen as an attack on that body by its environment that threatens its very existence.
The K.Cs have been trying to operate on the assumption that demands from the environment are invalid. Only demands from within the K.Cs can be recognised .
An environment making demands on a body that can't recognize those demands will be seen as an attack on that body .
Aussie
Some of the KC's are responding to health concerns. Eg, Scandinavia. The AKC is more refractory than the UK's KC. Maybe we should be asking why some clubs are more responsive than others.
DeleteYes, I have wondered about that too. Maybe a strong history of closer working and living relationships with dogs gives an increased incentive to address the failures?
DeleteClimate meaning dogs are less able to be bred or kept in large numbers indoors so quality more important?
Aussie
Has anyone noticed a dog in some of the pedigrees, Wessenhof Lord Igor, in the photo his skin folds completely cover his eyes, hopefully it's from the way the person is holding him.
ReplyDeleteLinda+anon: I didn't mean I thought anyone should vaccinate "excessively," but it would seem I'm behind the times? (I know some vaccination protocols have changed, but I don't know what the new recommendations are.)
ReplyDeleteGeneral recommendation is to have the second puppy one at 12weeks+ due to the risk of maternal derived antibodies blocking them, you normally give 2-3 weeks between them so first one would be around 8-10 weeks if giving the second at 12 weeks.
DeleteAlso many vets won't do the second one if the first was done at a diffrent vets or a diffrent brand to what they use so the puppy then has to be started again so gets an extra dose.
After that it's a booster at a year then once every 3 years booster for core vaccines, every year if u want lepto done (lepto is not a core one).
Thanks, anon. I didn't know vets would start them again under those circumstances! So some breeders start the puppy series and some don't? (That's what I assumed "vaccinating" meant for litters.) It seemed like everyone here did it when I was an assistant, but that was years ago, and I live in parvo country.
DeleteNo problem.
DeleteI wonder if the change is due to some vets being after the extra money. perhaps back then vets were happy to finish the puppy set for new owners so most gave at least the first one before the pups left, and some vets will vaccinate at 6 then 8 weeks, so if that was more common back then before the suggestions changed I could see it more common to vaccinate before leaving.
I had my girl done at 8-10 weeks as my local vets are one who will do it from 6 weeks. They didn't warn me about maternal derived antibody interference, when she was 7 months she caught parvo and when titre tested had no immunity for any of the vaccinated ones. It was then that I started looking at the vaccine data sheets and called up two of the companies who make them. Both told me about maternal derived antibody interference as did my new vet who were treating her.
Even when I was an assistant, different vets did the puppy shots at different times. I never knew why, but "for money" is not an unlikely answer.
DeleteI'm so sorry your dog got parvo despite getting all the vaccs. How horrible. )-:
The last puppy vaccine should be given after 16 weeks. I have never encountered a vet that cared about the brand of vaccine given previously, only the time frame. Our clinic sometimes ignores breeder vaccines because we can't guarantee that the vaccine was handled, stored or administered properly. It's better when the puppies are vet checked prior to sale because they can receive their first vaccine in a vet hospital where it can all be done properly.
DeleteVaccine protocol is the first vaccination can be given at as early as 6 weeks and this would normally be done for pups hoping to be guide or helping dogs, so they have a bit of cover and can be taken out and about from a very early age but most vets would advise to vaccinate from 8 weeks for first jab when it is believed Mum's immunity starts to fade. The second jab should be done 2 to 4 weeks after the first but if using the new Lepto 4, the second of these should be done no sooner than 12 weeks of age.
DeleteLeaving pups until 16 weeks until their second jab would really hinder their socialisation and learning about the outside world and I don't know of a vet that would advise on vaccinating pups so late because of this issue.
Vets do not like doing a primary course using different vaccines as the vaccines are from different companies, if your pup is unlucky to still get one of the illnessses that it is vaccinated for or reacts to being vaccinated your insurance or the company who makes the vaccines will not cover you, so vets will not mix vaccines for the primary course but annual boosters a vet would happily use a different brand vaccine.
A vet if handed a vaccine card for a pup from another vet surgery, if doing their job properly and have concernes about the previous vets administration of vaccine should contact the vet with the phone number on the vaccine card to find out if all has been done okay.
@Laurel J http://drjeandoddspethealthresource.tumblr.com/tagged/vaccines#.Us6om_RDtqI
DeleteMost recent vaccination protocol can been seen here. By recent I mean the protocol for THIS YEAR. TITER test to ensure you don't over-vaccinate of course make sure to comply with your local vaccination laws. Jean Dodds ihas been successful in stopping CALIFORNIA AB 272.
ALSO if you are interested in thyroid problems for your pets. Dodds is very into that as well.
I forgot to mention in what I said on the 7th Jan at 12:24 that was for the UK for vaccinating pups.
DeleteAnother good site to go to for protcol for vaccinating is www.wsava.org/guidelines/vaccination-guidelines
I have read this with interest in the UK, as a vet this year in the Plymouth area advised a owner of a pup they had from us to have a third vaccine at 16 weeks old due to cases of Parvo in the area and in the UK it is the normal practice that vets only give two vacines for the primary course.
Absolutely revolting. I rarely speak this way, but this is one breed that, if no one is going to divert from these structural extremes, should be allowed to go extinct.
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one who sometimes feels as if the kennel clubs have become so old that they are trying to self destruct?
ReplyDeleteLike fish that live in the ocean, then battle their way upstream, only to breed one time, and then die, leaving their future in yet unhatched eggs, is the method of kennel clubs to NOT change, but to grow old and unyielding, running themselves to their end, trusting the next generation to adapt and change?
Why is it so difficult for entrenched minds to understand the suffering in the lives of dogs bred for double dwarf genes and brachycephaly as well as extreme type -all in the same dog? Oh yes, and the twisted tail, and the skin folds at the same time too! Isn't that a bit much for breeder to load on one dog?
And isn't the point of a kennel club that people feel that breeders using the club's experienced guidance and standards won't make errors novices would? Who would have thought that suffering would be written into some of the standards? That over a 100 years would pass and kennel clubs, around the world, would not pick up the reins? That some breeds would have been better off if winners names were drawn out of a hat?
Have you seen Old Tyme Bulldogs? Not recognised by the KC (surprise there) but may be a pleasant surprise to any bulldog lovers who would like to see a more moderate dog...
ReplyDeleteMeant to say at least I couldn't find them on the KC website, I may be wrong though...
DeleteAKC or UKC? UKC has olde english bulldogges listed in their standards. They are free breather and free whelpers. The AKC recognized the Boston Terrier June 26, 2013 so it's not so hard to believe they don't have more moderate type bulldogs.
DeleteThis looks like the bulldog of yesteryear, how did he end up on a bus? http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/07/dog_who_wandered_onto_bus_is_h.html
ReplyDeleteLooks like I was on holiday for this blog entry. Anyway I'm delighted to say Esmari Sir Buksie the bulldog shown here came up only seventh on a Google image search for bulldog Africa, yes under pedigree dogs exposed!
ReplyDeleteThat's a whole continent educated. Well done.
Esmari Bulldogs in South Africa has also banned my entire country of residence from accessing their site! Without being the slightest bit arrogant this is a bit odd given I wasn't even here!? I would like to think they've folded as breeders and it's a blanket global dead end but I can't be sure.
Not very plausible but If anyone from Bonkers is responsible for the territories banning, a jolly big well done! Make contact and I will treat to high tea and whatnot at the 'insula. Anonymice aren't counted unless I can verify IP address.