In not the greatest surprise of Crufts 2012, the Best of Breed Neapolitan Mastiff (the Bitch CC Lux/Slo Ch Ithani - from Belgium) has also failed her vet check... I am told by those ringside that she has only "mild ectropion", but that may not be the reason for her DQ. We may get some pictures so hopefully we'll be able to have a closer look later.
But German Shepherd, Elmo von Huhnegrab, who has won Best of Breed, has passed his vet check.
Here are some pix of him at last Birmingham City Champ Show. He also won not just the BOB but the Group at last year's Cruft's. He looks OK on the move and this dog is better than many. But....
The BIS judge last year felt that dogs spine and his hand stopped and felt just where the hump is. It was so obvious. Now what is going on in that dog’s spine? If that was a human spine - would we be passing it as healthy? Still he’s too over angulated and unstable in the back-end for me. Disappointing.
ReplyDeleteJust yesterday, I was trying to talk a client of mine out of purchasing her second Neo pup.
ReplyDeleteHer first one died at age four.
Please, speaking as someone actively involved in the breed, do anything to prevent her buying one...
DeleteYou can see a video of him here
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOqKrqx0h1I
We can't ask for miracles from these precursory vet checks. Even the Secretary of the KC admits that they are only part of the problem and other issues will have to be handled with other measures.
ReplyDeleteBUT, It's really sad that some breeds are just so bad that we know there isn't one good dog to be found in show circles that can pass the vet exam. The very minute the word came down that a dog had failed a vet check I asked online "so what about the Neos?" and when the reply came back "wait two days," I predicted then that there would be no possible way a Neo could pass.
As you point out, this is no great feat of prognostication, but a very sad commentary on the state of affairs in so many breeds.
I think we're rapidly reaching a crossroads here.
ReplyDeleteRemember the "hairspray-gate" saga last year? It’s clear that the row brewing will be about a couple gazillion times more intense. The lawyers are already on retainers and the facebook campaigns will soon be in full swing.
Maybe we wanted more, maybe we wished that the GSD and others had also been failed. This is not the fight those who support healthier pedigree dogs wanted but we now find ourselves faced with a simple question. Do we support the Kennel Club's actions and put as much pressure as we can on them to retain the vet checks or do we sit back while the backlash sweeps the concept of fully independent health checks away?
They were not independent vets as they were commissioned by a Kennel Club that is running scared due to the mass hysteria caused by Jemima Harrison.
DeleteI agree - what do we do? The backlash will be there but the KC presumably can see the writing on the wall enough to continue with reforms?
DeleteClearly, one of the big issues here is how incestuous and poorly run the breed clubs themselves are. So the Kennel Club finds itself pulled in a reactionary/backward direction by dysfunctional breed clubs, and in a science-based/reforming direction by vets and geneticists, Jemima's great work, and the bulk (presumably) of public opinion.
The problem for the Kennel Club is that their more vocal and active members are likely to be the ones with vested interests in the status quo (breed clubs). Maintaining pressure on the KC to continue reforms seems the best option, given a) their apparent willingness to engage in some reform and b) the apparent unwillingness of government to legislate breeding standards. Until there is legislation, the governing body of breeding is still the KC...
yes because "legislation" works so well .. like the DDA.. works a treat. are you really so stupid and misguided to think that the GOVERNMENT should set the standard for DOG breeding All I can think is you must work for the government..
DeleteDo you have permission from the owners and breeders of these dogs to post them on your blog? If I found out you were using photos of my dogs as examples of your hate, I would be on the phone with my attorney so fast!!
ReplyDeleteBecause by all means lets pretend that breeding dogs for deformity is appropriate. Let's pretend that a GSD with a raised protrusion from it's back as the spine dives to a weak rear end is exactly what we're looking for. You want hate? I hate that some dog breeders have followed fads at the expense of health and vitality. I hate that anyone can defend dogs who, if the breed standard was actually applied, would be booted from the show ring. The winning GSD, you couldn't pay me enough to take on a dog that will eventually become a veterinary money pit.
DeleteI am not an animal rights zealot and the GSD is my breed. What show breeders have done to turn an all-around working dog into a physical train wreck is criminal. Of course you and others like you want your photos hidden. You don't want people to see what you've done and are apparently proud of.
Anonymous 10:42 -
DeletePerhaps take the time to read up on current UK copyright laws. There is absolutely nothing illegal about posting pictures from a photo venue. As a journalist, I should know.
-E
@Anonymous Mar 10, 2012 01:58 PM
DeleteHear, hear!! Everything you said
Have you actually put YOUR hands on that dog? there was a lovely picture of him placing in the group he looks fantastic..
DeleteIn fact @Anonymous Mar 10 Crufts isn't a public place and the Kennel Club specifically doesn't allow photography except for personal use. Posting on a website isn't personal use. You obviously don't know your copyright law. I'm a photojournalist - I do know.
DeleteGosh. What IS that hump on the GSDs back? Iv never seen them standing "foursquare" so I had no idea what they look like when not squatting... but that spinal hump cant be right! What the heck?????????
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, if I knew how to contact the British vets present at Cruft´s these two days, I would do so just to convey the gratitude I feel for their courage and professional integrity. At long last - but thank you, vets! I don´t know whether you, like us, have to sign a statement when your training is complete promising to do the best we can to prevent and cure pain and illness regardless of where it shows up; but if you do, in my opinion, the vets at Cruft´s honoured their code. Good work!
ReplyDeleteIf the angered show/fancy people don´t understand what ectropion means, it´s not the vets´problem. Having good hips does not take away the discomfort and pain resulting from ectropion. Having "clear eyes" means you have a normal retina, normal eye globe structures, normal eye-sight; it is perfectly possible to have all that and STILL have ectropion.
If I (or any doctor) declared a child normal even though it hade no nose, would you accept that statement because I hurried to point out the baby had two ears?
The breed club person was very angry that vets only saw dogs from a "veterinarian point of view" - yes, that´s why we have them, isn´t it? - and didn´t care that the breed standard allows for a little ectropion. Here is a suggestion for that breed club person. It involves just two tiny strips of surgical tape and should be easy enough to carry out in front of a bathroom mirror:
Tape the skin below your eyes down - just a little, you know, not "excessively" - so that the lower eye-lid is pulled away from the eye. You need not wait five years - five hours should be more than enough to learn why, when the vet´s view and the breed standard collide, it´s not the breed standard that should prevail.
Unless the laws are very different in the United Kingdom, images belong to the photographers, not the dog owners. The only way to stop photographers from posting their own work (or allowing others to do so) is to ban cameras at events. The American Walking Horse industry went that route, and it sure hasn't helped their abysmal public relations situation.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.crufts.org.uk/files/kclub-crufts/Crufts%20private%20photography%20form_0.pdf
DeleteExcept when the yare to be ussed for a commercial purpose and they they need approval and this Blog is a commercial arm of Ms Harrison income, indeed she featured it in PDE2, it would be hard for her to get a court tothink other wise, but I would liek to see the lawyers bill trying, as there is no photo credit she will be the one liable
DeleteThis blog is most definitely not a commercial arm of "Ms Harrison income". I have chosen not to "monetise" it (despite it getting as many as 10,000 hits a day), do not accept advertising and I don't get paid for writing it.
DeleteJemima
"Commercial" refers to advertisement. Not 'making money'. I can take a photo of you and sell it, but I cannot take that photo and use it in (for example) a magazine ad for whatever brand of shoes or watch or etc. you happened to be wearing. Not without your permission anyways.
DeleteNoticed the group winning Newfoundland seemed to have worse eyes than the disqualified Clumber....despite the Standard saying "showing no haw "
ReplyDeleteOh and just had a go at pulling my own lower lids down a fraction....was horribly uncomfortable after a few minutes
http://www.crufts.org.uk/files/kclub-crufts/Crufts%20private%20photography%20form_0.pdf
ReplyDeleteI am not the least bit fond of the direction the modern show GSD has taken and would be happy to see them reel it back a whole lot. But to be fair, in that second photo that looks so horrible, it appears that the dog may be getting ready to sit, which makes it look worse.
ReplyDeleteIt's important to keep in mind that things like this can be taken out of context -- if you just saw the one photo and none of the rest, it would be easy to assume the dog was in terrible pain. A picture CAN tell a thousand words -- but sometimes they aren't honest words.
But what say you of a thousand pictures?? An abrupt 20 degree break midway of the spine is what it is..sitting, standing, in gait..regardless.
DeleteI am with glee for the probability that clubs will no longer be 'wagging the dog' with regards to pretentious cruelty of what is doctrinally imperial from those of vain naivety. They are dogs, companions..not articles of adornment or mediums of abstract art. HEALTH and WELFARE FIRST..unconditionally. Best of Breed..what an oxymoron.
You can't even get the show right! Those photos are clearly not from last years crufts!
ReplyDeleteHey Anon do you know how to read?
DeleteQuoted from above: "Here are some pix of him at last Birmingham Champ Show where he won not just the BOB but the Group"...
-E
Actualy, I did get it wrong. First had it that the pix above were taken at Crufts 2011 (hence sharp Anon comment), then mis-re-edited it to what you saw.
DeleteHopefully now correct!
Jemima
I dont like the look of the gsd but the brief for the vet was to disqualify lamness which I guess would be if the dog hopped along on 3 legs or yelped when manipulated ?
ReplyDeleteThe gsd walks oddly and is cow hocked but its equal on all 4 legs
The second photo? How about the THIRD?
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't purchase a dog with hocks like that - let alone consider using him in a breeding program.
Sad.
"Maybe we wanted more, maybe we wished that the GSD and others had also been failed."
ReplyDeletereally?/ you wanted it to fail?? You wanted others to fail? oh wait I forgot which blog I was on.. you want them ALL to fail.
Your generous and kind nature is overwhelming.
No one wants all breeds to fail. But it's not a bad thing to want a dog who is clearly showing health problems to fail. Why does that make someone unkind? To whom? I don't care about kindness to breeders, or their income. I care about being kind to the breeds and their health. And while Crufts needs to fine-tune the system a bit, it's a step in the right direction. Wish the AKC had the same courage.
ReplyDeleteclearly showing "health problems" to whom.. you? again the AR stance of breeders "income" as if these people who bring there life's work and passion to this show are "in it for the money".. my dear you know nothing about breeding animals..or at least dogs if you think it is a moneymaking enterprise at this level. You are indeed unkind to the people who make this a passion you will never feel to wish them harm and humiliation.. cruel indeed
DeleteI want unsound dogs to fail and that would pretty much cover the entire GSD entry sadly enough.
ReplyDeletereally you have seen all of them have you.. hip scores.. etc.. wow that is quite extraordinary
DeleteI am 12 and am reading your blog, I am very sorry you are all so cross. I wish there were no dog shows and all dogs were bred as pets, my best friend is a neapolitan mastiff, my mum is a welfare officer and she says that she picks up the pieces the pedigree breeders leave behind. To the blogger who advised her friend against getting a second neo puppy......go to rescue, and be like us......give them the best life possible. I hope you like neo's Jemima.
ReplyDelete:-)
DeleteCan we keep the waggiest tail classes?
VP
All the GSDs at this year's show were 'Germanic' style dogs - the 'English' style dogs weren't entered because it is well known that the GSD judge favours the Germanic type. Elmo is quite clearly seen to move poorly in the first lap of the ring in the group judging and should have been failed by the vet as unsound.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, those of us that breed English style dogs - and who could show what a good GSD is like - won't be at Crufts next year either. Yet, next year is an 'English' type favouring judge. WE won't be there because there has been a concerted effort by the German breeders to push German favouring judges into every qualifying show. The only show that had an 'English' judge was WELKS and now that judge has been replaced.
Until the KC face up to and, if necessary, slap down the 'German' breed clubs then the GSD will get worse not better. Unfortunately, the 'old fashioned' Alsatian type dog looks increasingly doomed.
and what health testing does the 'english' GSD breed complete exactly, enter the majority of 'english' types into the KC own health database and draw a big fat zilch in terms of results???? it is well known amoungst some GSD enthusiasts that Ms Harrison stated a preference for this 'type' of GSD on a well known GSD board -largely untested, riddled with genetic defects and a rear end low enough to the ground to replicate that of a corgi.
DeleteIt is also known that Ms Harrison has stated her 'acknowledgement' to the current efforts by the GSD community (largely the germanic style I grant you) "I am yet to be convinced about the shape of the current showdog, In the film, I acknowledged the GSD breeders commitment to health. I also said that I thought that - in my "uninformed" and "ignorant" point of view of course :-) - that there had been some improvement in the dogs in the ring." Funny she sees that 'improvement' in only one generation of dogs is it not? Unfortunately she sought not to make this public through the PDE2 program instead opted to leave in many more minutes than 10 of the previous program. And then produce a blog post such as this......not for the good of dogs that type of contradiction now is it?
Shame in the press there is a very very good book entitled "Power Without Responsbility" NEVER a more relevant title as this when attributed to Ms Harrison and her team!
The Kennel Club pays lip service to the idea of healthier stock but behind the scenes the opposite appears to be happening - at least with respect to GSD's. Behind the scenes the KC is succeeding in obliterating the straight backed GSD by stealth. There are now NO championship shows that offer CC's to the traditional type of GSD. If nothing is done to save the straight backed shepherd the breed with die out completely within a decade or so and all we will have left will be crook backed, frog dogs. Not watch the personal abuse start from the German supporters....
ReplyDeleteThe Kennel will never put the health of the breeds first as they would loose to much revenue refusing to register those that are unhealthy! Like their accredited breeders scheme they don't police it properly? How can a breeder that breeds from a known epileptic producer be registered as an accredited breeder this show it clearly doesn't work!
ReplyDeleteThe same as the show world its one big con, which I can say I actually experienced. I knew a judge of my breed at the time and I was at a show where she was our breeds judge and when it came to BOB she placed a dog with clear faults as BOB and when I next ran into her I asked why she had done it and she told me that the dog in question was owned by another breeder and who was also a judge and was judging at the next championship show where CC's were on offer and had she knocked her dog then it would be tit for tat and she would knock her dog and with CC's there she couldn't afford to to not put her dog as BOB. When I said that's not fair on other people who pay good money to show their dogs expecting a fair system and her reply was get used to it or get out of showing, or alternately become a judge myself then I would also have the leaveridge to get my dogs to become a champion. She also told me the show world is full of back handers and its not the dog that gets judges its the owner or breeder that determines whether a dog becomes a champion. After learning that I no longer wanted anything to do with the show world, which was a shame as under all rounders my boy was taking BOB and BIS. And I did really enjoy getting out and about with my dogs, but I refused to be part of that farce. This is why breeds are getting ruined and are no longer as they should be. Due to the years gone by and our dogs getting old, when we were down to two dogs and we then lost another, we went round the shows looking for a breeder from which to purchase another puppy, but the breed had changed so much, that we decided the breed was no longer for us.
It is evident what the show world has done to ruin the breeds and how much breeds have changed just by looking back at the years gone by and the dogs that were BOB. The GSD's for example did not have these banana backs that they do today.
In response to the person above who said "The straight back GSD will die out within a decade" I can a sure them, that they will not die out as there are plenty of breeders that don't bother to show that are breeding the straight backed GSD, myself included.