Yesterday, the UK's Telegraph revealed that the nation's favourite dog is a doodle.
Well, actually, it was the "Cockapoo/Labradoodle etc"
Pedants among you will point out that this is actually rather more than one breed - although, in fairness, the Telegraph also offered "Spaniel", "Setter" and "Labrador/Retriever" as options covering whole breed types there, too.
The purebred pedants, meanwhile, will point out, in capital letters and with a lot of exclamation marks, that THESE ARE MONGRELS NOT BREEDS!!!!!!
But the poll was telling. The purebred Poodle only managed 22nd in the poll in which 30,000 readers voted. (Good to see too that Telegraph readers don't rate the Pug and Bulldog either - 19th + 20th in the poll respectively)
The scruffy poodle crosses are massively popular in the UK - and the good news is that there are an increasing number of good breeders of them.
The Cockapoo Club of GB actually sets higher standards for its breeders than many purebred breed clubs. It has... wait for it... 12,000 members.
The UK Labradoodle Association also has a Code of Practice and minimum health requirements for its breeders.
The basic rules for prospective doodle buyers are:
• make sure the pup's' parents have been health-tested for the problems that afflict their component breeds.
• walk away if a breeder guarantees you a hypoallergenic pup. (Some are low shedding, but many are not).
Also, remember that the much-touted 'hybrid vigour' health benefits are more evident in the first cross (known as F1) pups. The F2/3/4 generations are less predictable health-wise and in looks too - although there are some very nice dogs.
In fact, they have in the main fantastic temperaments. Some of the big Labradoodles are a bit full-on, but I've never met a nasty one. I went to a big Labradoodle event a couple of years ago and was quite astonished at how well dogs that were perfect strangers played with each other - and there were literally dozens of them running around off-lead.
Beware of the coats, though. Every groomer I know whinges about them - although some of that stems for new doodle owners under-anticipating how much care the coats need; something most purebred Poodle owners know enough about to ensure the dogs don't get too overgrown/matted.
I confess I am not a fan of poodle/shaggy coats myself. I keep my "pretend" doodle (the imaginatively-named Curly) - clipped down most of the time, especially during the autumn/winter burr season here in Wiltshire. Curly is three-quarters Irish Water Spaniel and a quarter Collie. My dog trainer says she's one of the smartest dogs she's ever known - and I'm very much hoping that the mixed blood will protect her from the cancer that kills purebred Irish Water Spaniels in their droves.
Doodle temperaments in the US are ... notsomuch.
ReplyDeleteThe perennial cock-a-poo -- popular since at least the 1970's, so I think we can stop classing this cross as a fad -- too often gets its bite threshold from its American cocker parent.
The Lab and golden crosses seem to jumble reactivity with rudeness and stupidity. I'm still not sure how you take one highly intelligent, trainable breed and cross it with a not-exactly-stupid, trainable breed and get these dunces.
Look, I had a gathering here of our famously prickly, pushy, opinionated, controlling, personal-space-having farm dog breed.
There were also dozens of THEM running at liberty on a field in a great play group at times, as well as mixing quietly with the human guests. No significant conflicts -- one strutting young male put in his place by older dogs, to the delight of his owners, who were hoping to provide this lesson for him. This works because they are clannish. (The lone Pomeranian ruled them all, though.) This is the general rule at our breed gatherings.
Put a doodle into that scrum, or one our ES into the doodle scrum, and there is more likely to be a problem.
I'm a dog trainer in central VA and I work with a lot of doodles from young puppies through adults. I also have a goldendoodle and an Australian Labradoodle. I find the dogs to be highly trainable, affectionate and easy to live with. The biggest problem I see is owners who are not prepared to begin positive training at a young age, don't anticipate that low-shed dogs (Including poodles, maltese, etc) require coat maintenance or they will mat. If you're purchasing from a backyard breeder or strictly online, you are taking the same chances of getting a poorly bred dog as you would any AKC registered breed. If these dogs appear less than intelligent, look to the owner for not training properly. I've trained these dogs from puppyhood through registered therapy dog status and I unequivocally can say they are incredibly smart and love to please. Like some other AKC breeds though, if you are too harsh or use aversive methods on these tender-hearted though enthusiastic dogs, you will not get the results you're looking for - you'll get an anxious dog that will stress up just as easily and as he will shut down. Please don't trash these dogs just because they're not Kennel Club, Heather.
DeleteIn my experience, here in the US, doodles are no more or less rude, pushy, or stupid than most pet Labs are. I actually run into A LOT of reactive and rude Labradors on a weekly basis. I don't really blame the dogs so much as the owners, because I think most people who acquire a Lab are expecting a laid back, easy going, lazy house dog. They may eventually become that way with age, but Lab puppies need to be trained and exercised and mentally stimulated just like any other puppy, and I think most people just don't realize that. Add to that problem the fact that most pet owners are pushed to spay/neuter their young dogs as puppies, which only seems to stunt their behavioral development and turn them into perpetual puppies. I will never understand the doodle craze, but a lot of that may be that I just do not like long coated, smelly dogs with a penchant for rolling in stinky wet stuff. It's even worse because they grow that long coat on their faces just like a poodle, so their beards get all rank and smelly too.
DeleteIt would be interesting to know more about why so many people voted for Cockapoos and Labradoodles. Their looks? Temperaments? Health? Longevity? Intelligence?
ReplyDeleteI love that mixes have taken over as some of the most popular "breeds." However, as a 35+ year dog sports competitor, therapy dog team member, etc... I have met tons of sweet Cockapoos in the distant past (they were popular in the U.S. in the 1970's), but have never met a Labradoodle or Goldendoodle that I liked. When I was teaching positive obedience in the early 2000's, several of my students were among the first to import Labradoodles from breeders in Australia, including the first kennel to "invent" them for guide dog use. Every one of these three dogs was extremely fear aggressive. They hid behind chairs and would come out and try to nail passing dogs and people. Even after 6 weeks in a special private area I had for shy dogs, they were still hiding behind chairs.
ReplyDeleteI didn't see these dogs for another decade or so, much of which I spent abroad in Turkey. Coming back to the U.S. three years ago, I would hazard a guess that 1 in 3 dogs I see in my city's "upper crust" area--where I work--are Labradoodles and Goldendoodles. I also see them very occasionally at agility practices. While none are aggressive, they just seem extremely boring, dull and low-drive. They don't have the drive or perky personality of either parent. I would hazard a guess that Labradoodles in the U.S. are closing in on Labs as the most popular breed. But I still see about 10 Labs competing in agility for every Labradoodle.
That said, a slow, kind of stupid, low-drive dog is often an IDEAL pet. Much better than high-drive dogs for most people. However, I can't figure out is why people want the HUGE Doodles. I would be breeding Goldens and Labs with toy poodles or mini poodles to make a more compact, longer-lived, less-hairy, cheaper-to-feed dog. Instead, the Doodles I see on a daily basis are all from Std. Poodle parents, seem much bigger than either of the parents, some standing the height of Berners rather than Labs.
When looking at "sport crossbreeds," I briefly looked into Border Doodles. I found a decent looking breeder in Texas that did health testing, and whose team of two breeders had both earned conformation and sports titles in their breeds before starting crosses. However, when I saw videos of the puppies, they were again quite low drive, with no interest in tug or toys. Rather than have the intelligence of either parent, they seemed to be more like a hound-type that just wanted to walk around and sniff.
Anyway, I like crosses of many sorts, but the only Doodle cross I've met that seems to be an improvement on the parents are Cockapoos... Maybe the Doodles in the UK are made of better stuff than the ones in the U.S.
''Maybe the Doodles in the UK are made of better stuff than the ones in the U.S''. I suspect by your description of the US version the answer is yes. Most Uk Doodles are brilliant.
ReplyDeleteI have to say I dont know too many labradoodles but the ones I do know around here are very large houndy looking dogs and tend to be a bit hound like in their demeanour too. This to me is also a bit puzzling. Maybe they are just so super intelligent they couldn't be bothered by anything other than their own thoughts. Or something the Lab and the Standard Poodle have in common that comes out in the cross as a dominant feature but is hidden in each breed.
DeleteThey do seem to be in a world of their own. What they are like with their owners though is probably a completely different story.
Here they all Imports. The six or so I have ever seen in our neighbourhood are walked by Pinyos in black suits who are paid to look after and train them.
Training methods out here can also be every bit Cesar Millan whose TV series Im embarrassed to say was still running on one of our TV networks up until a few weeks ago. There was public outrage (mostly British expats) so they didn't get the next season. Im sure neither the standard poodle part or the Labrador or any dog for that matter would find this training method particularly encouraging. If subjected to this from puppyhood may well even leave them traumatised. This was of course also popular in America too for the longest time.
Could be the British Doodles are simply a lot happier with life. As MarkB says, they're BRILLIANT!
I actually think British dogs on the whole, are probably a lot happier with life. Dogs are usually family members or working dogs in the UK. They are allowed to go to many shops and on public transport etc, and it's surprising how many dogs you see out and about with their owners in the UK compared with Australia anyway. In Australia many dogs are not much more than backyard ornaments. There are plenty of dogs here that spend their whole life in the back yard.
DeleteIm not so sure I want a Doodle but I would love a Curly. What a lovely looking dog she is!
ReplyDeletewhy not breed one? or a while litter of them.. pretty easy to do
DeleteFar too easy! I don't breed dogs anymore. I do always have one eye out for a nice little JRT bitch to join one of the boys, though. If I ever spot the right one on my travels I will know and will be delighted, if not also not a problem.
DeleteBestuvall, not exactly responsible of a breeder to suggest that people indiscriminately breed dogs is it? How many dogs are executed in the USA because nobody wants them? Over a million last figures I saw.
DeleteCurly Girly is adorable!
ReplyDelete"Curly is three-quarters Irish Water Spaniel and a quarter Collie." How do you know this?
ReplyDeleteFour years ago, a litter of five IWS/collie pups were handed into a local Irish rescue by a farmer well known to the rescue. The farmer's IWS is well-known locally. That rescue sent the five pups, all bitches, to me and I rehomed them - one in fact to my cleaner so I see her frequently. Unknown to me or the rescue, there was another bitch pup that the farmer kept. She mated with her father and produced three pups - two bitches and a male. This litter too was dumped on the local rescue. The rescue sent them to me. I rehomed two - but kept Curly as she was extremely timid (she's great now but it took a year). So Curly is the product of an incest mating... shock horror! Despite this, I was very tempted to breed her back to a full IWS to see what we got.Then common sense got the better of me and I spayed her... ;-)
DeleteReally you take the biscuit bringing in rescue dogs to this country when there are dogs here that need good homes already in rescue kennels, and what do you then do , educate and solve the problem by making sure the person is responsible in the future of their canine welfare.....no you just let them create more problems, well why not name and shame them instead of letting the cycle continue, the Irish puppy farming industry is a crime (just how many greyhounds do they churn out each year) and you are now just an outlet for poor breeding practices. As for you call to the wonders of these "HighBred" (not a spelling mistake they are produced in High volumes and just Bred for higher prices) will you able to hold your head up with pride in 10 years when all the rescue kennels are full of oodles and their descendants or hang your head in shame when the hybred vigour is overtaken by a whole host of genetic problems?
DeleteCurly and her siblings/half-sibs came from a farm, not a puppy farm, Anon. The IWS is used for hunting and the collies for herding. The local rescue has offered to neuter his dogs for nothing but there's an Irish rural psyche that believes that it ruins the dog. You can't force people. My rescue does not fuel the puppy-farming trade in Ireland. We take strays from the pounds - and a few private surrenders/dogs being given away for free on DoneDeal. Most are crossbreeds. Is "highbred" your new phrase? Not sure it works...
DeleteAnd of course, we take lots of UK dogs too.
DeleteAnon 22:54 could one ask how many dogs you have personally rescued, supported in the main from your funds, sought out fosterers and transporters to enable dogs to become the lovely pets they always were but if left in kennels in some countries are killed because there is absolutely no chance of rehoming? I read some amazing stories and see the photographs years on from rescue of the dogs that BRX have helped, selfless, kind, dog loving people who help the dogs to their new homes. Criticise if you want, we live in a democracy, but glance over your shoulder before you do next time. BRX don't discriminate, or incriminate, they just rescue - do you?
DeleteHonestly, there may be some basis for desexing ruining working dogs. Bitches can take a huge hit to their stamina after desexing which isn't great for a herding dog who is expected to be able to go all day, and it has an effect on the coat, usually making it coarser and longer which may affect the effectiveness of a water dogs coat in the water. So the rural Irish belief that desexing working dogs ruins them may not be total baloney. No, that farmers issue is being incapable of keeping his dogs apart. Maybe some education in that respect would be more effective?
DeleteA breed is any population of domestic animals that "breed true," i.e. their phenotype (appearance and behavior) are relatively predictable. The only reason cockapoos, labradoodles, golden doodles, etc. are not breeds, is that if they were to reproduce amongst themselves, their offspring would not have as a uniform a phenotype as poodles, labs, goldens, etc. breeding amonst themselves would have. Two labradoodles mating could produce puppies that were labrador-like, poodle-like, or labradoodle-like. That's all it really means to say these are not breeds. However, they are popular for a number of reasons, and from a genetic standpoint, it's better that they are outcrossed.
ReplyDeletePurebred pedants might use the terms "mutt" or "mongrel" to describe these and other mixed or landrace dogs, but such terms really should be retired. Both are disparaging words for non-purebred dogs. The word "mutt" literally means "stupid," and the word "mongrel" literally means, "inferior mixed dog." Primitive and mixed dogs are not inferior to purebred dogs, and indeed, from a health standpoint, it's often the other way around. As I've said before, the dog fancy should take a page from livestock breeders, who still have breeds, but who don't require that they be reproductively isolated from each other to count as breeds. You can have a Hereford cow with some Angus ancestry, and it's still a Hereford if it looks and acts like a Hereford. If you mix them up more, it's a Hereford x Angus, and no one thinks them any worse for it; indeed, depending on their purpose, they may be considered better.
So it should be with dogs. You can have your breeds, but for goodness sake, open all registries. And if people want crosses, mixes, or primitives, then there's nothing wrong with that either. It just depends what they want them for.
By the reluctant inventor of this fad and presumably someone who is knowledgeable on the matter, information about the many health and behavioural problems animals produced for these labels are prone to. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201404/designer-dog-maker-regrets-his-creation
ReplyDeleteThe Doodle isn't much of a single man "invention".
DeleteIn the seventies JRT's were being crossed with Maltese poodles to make a very intelligent spunky cute little dog that looked (only looked) a lot like the short show JRT of today. It wasn't quite as ruthlessly game but capable and sharp, it also made a good pet and could fit down any hole it saw.
Late seventies the Mini smooth haired dachshunds entered the picture too to create the shorter slightly longer version which very quickly ended up hugely popular amongst us horsey lot and then everyone else and on a global scale. A tough little dog with a short short low maintenance smooth coat that can easily catch a rat, as easily follow a horse on weekends and be a lap dog, very vocal protector and charming companion and play mate all in one. None of it did any harm as Wally Conron claims it does, all it did was in fact even further diversify the JRT gene pool.
Maybe this could end up helping the Poodle the Labrador and the Spaniel?
Wally seems to be a pedigree purebred die hard and is having regrets about having messed around with his race (breed). He doesn't like "purebreds" having their genes diversified.
The Jack Russell Terrier Poo was around along time before the Doodle's doo and probably gave the show JRT it's broken coat given they avoided the blood sport variety. Of course some breeders of show JRTs today would be mortified to know this....direct from the Parsons genius they are em, I mean our doggies.
I've got a mutt. Best dog I've ever had. So easy to train, friendly, great with kids healthy and intelligent. patterjack...x between a patterdale and jackrussel. pedigree snobs need to wake up to the problems of pure breeds.
ReplyDeleteLOL you can take Patterjack to the US and sell it as Jack Russell. We have such an anarchy with Jack Russells here that the working registry has fits over it.
DeleteCurly looks like like some kind of ancient British water dog or an early form of "curly-coated retriever."
DeleteYou mean its not a real JRT!? The real JRT?! But how can you sleep at night. You better consult www.therealjackrussell.com/ and post haste about rudder. (: (: (: What accent does it have? Can it say its Hs? No. Rs? Hmmm
DeleteAnyway harumph!
I think its brillaint news!
ReplyDeleteGive those poor French bulldogs and the like a rest.
Might even make the KC rethink some of it's nonsense.
Cross breeding is great, and even better that the public is coming along, but I really hope these breeders have learnt from the mistakes of pedigree breeders.
ReplyDeleteThey are combining narrow gene pools and that is obviously why F2+ dogs have problems. Genetic testing avoids some of these issues, but doesn't solve the problem, no more than it will solve it for pedigree dogs. They need to keep crossing out until they have a large enough gene pool, and then breed widely within the pool, no stud dogs and learn to love diversity and difference. TLDR: Get and follow advice from geneticists.
The Cockapoo is growing on me! I like the dog you have Jemima! So beautiful!
ReplyDeleteCurly is a cracker, no question. But JH has put a lot of time and effort in rehabilitating her and I would just want to point out that her background is one of high energy, intelligent breeds. Thus if considering such a mix one must be remembering this fact and that whilst she looks easy it wasn't without a great deal of time and understanding and exercise that JH has achieved Curly's happiness. Also on a grooming note, IWS can be very high maintenance coat wise and again if that isn't considered it could be an expensive surprise, both from grooming charges and smell - both of which can be difficult in a comparatively small home. These cautious words relate to poo xs too, because they are not all couch potatoes, cutsy cute, they have huge expectations of what life is all about and it can involve lots of running and lots of mud...........................
DeleteMud? Exercise?
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lSAQuC4sXM
;-)
(Gemma was Curly's name before the Curly moniker stuck...)
DeleteGeorgina, the IWS x collies have had pretty easy single coats - no undercoat and open. They do boast various degrees of 'straggly' though which picks up undergrowth.
DeleteIf people come to poodles for their looks, we stay with them for their playful, intelligent, affectionate natures. I'm pleased to see so many appreciating 70 - 80% of what I enjoy - that I hear is the proportion of poodle in today's labradoodle mix: also that there are more good doodle breeders around these days. When the craze first took off, pup prices went to double a pure poodle and more. If this is not a law of economics, it should be - when prices go through the roof, ethics go out the window. All kinds of undesirables raced to breed doodles, from the ignorant and irresponsible to the downright criminal. But despite the implication of this post, snobbery is by no means universal in the poodle frat. The UK Labradoodle Association in fact was persuaded to adopt its code of practice by a concerned poodle breeder. The full-on poodle is demanding of attention and needs regular grooming; not low-maintenance, not everyone's cup of tea, nothing wrong in toning it down for the mass market.
ReplyDeleteThe standard poodle seems to demand the academics' attention too, their ailments have been studied and reported on far more than any other breed. Let's not be fooled by that, or by any talk of hybrid vigour, into thinking doodles must be healthier. Without comparable data, we have only anecdotes to judge that question; they say doodles are prey to every poodle ailment, plus some from the labrador or whatever. Wise buyers will do their homework before 'buying a pup' whatever the breed or cross, track down one of those 'good breeders', and avoid the horror stories.