Over 500 people have "liked" this video, thinking it's cute. But what I see is a tired and miserable bulldog pup, desperate to sleep, who has to keep propping himself upright in order to stop his airways blocking. A hat-tip to Heather Houlahan for sending this one to me.
This is way more common than most people realise - just search on YouTube for "[brachycephalic breed of your choice] falls asleep standing up". It's not always because of blocked airways - you'll also find videos of other breeds falling asleep - but you should be able to spot the difference.
Here's the one we featured in the sequel to Pedigree dogs Exposed. Warning: it's accompanied by comedy sound fx.
Sorry, I do not like this video, this puppy cannot breathe normal through his nose... oh sorry.. I forgot he doesn't have a nose to breathe with. I feel so sorry for that puppy. How awful it must feel when you can't breathe ! A shame that so many people like dogs and cats with this problem. And yes, it is a Problem ! Think twice before you say that those breeds do not have a problem ! What the hell have people done when breeding such dogs ? How can this be cute ? I never will understand. Sorry for my words, but it is how I feel.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree that the extreme shortening of brachycephalic breeds (frequently accompanied by skin folds) causes breathing and dental problems and should be moved away from, as quickly as is reasonable using responsible breeding practices.
ReplyDeleteI suppose though that I have to ask if there is something that makes it clear this pup is not lying down because of breathing problems? Honestly I wondered if it was because he was on pavement and it may have been too rough or hard, or too hot or cold, for the pup's belly.
After a lifetime of having puppies who would remove themselves when they got tired and nap, my last one would never go to sleep on his own. When he'd get cranky I'd put him away and then he'd conk out. Anyway, I never let him get to the point of dropping where he was, but I could easily have seen him fighting sleep to the last because he just didn't want to miss anything.
Isn't it possible that he just wandered around til he was so exhausted he couldn't stay awake, yet found himself in a place where he did not want to lie down?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqxTUxzOceE
ReplyDeleteof course you will find other six year old dogs surfing but I think you will be able to tell the difference..
let's not forget our pug friends down under
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOuKE7lPlc8
granted I could not find a Peke surfing.. but then I am sure it is way beneath them to touch water.. LOL they probably prefer to "surf the net" like the blogger does.
How does the fact that some brachycephalic dogs do O.K. make up for the fact that many do not?
DeleteAn honest question in response to the surfing links?
I don't understand what their offering is supposed to tell us.
I have, BTW, owned a brachycephalic dog, sourced reputably, with BAOS. It was not something I ever want to do again and nor do I believe it is O.K. to greatly heighten the risk of producing this condition in dogs . . . for their sake.
Where the line of 'too much risk of suffering' is to be drawn I do not know. I do like the appearance of a square muzzle.
Kary
I have a few things to say about those surfing bulldogs...
ReplyDeleteFirst, they do seem to have better athleticism and ability to breathe than the typical bulldog specimens. And it's very cool that they can surf and ride skateboards. However, many dogs can do those things--people only like this video because bulldogs are normally such slugs that it's a shock to see them being active.
Second, if you look, the dogs are not really doing that much running. They leap in the air a couple of times, run maybe 5-10 steps, then stand on the board panting, out of breath. Also, through the miracle of video editing, it's impossible to tell if the dogs are doing this more than a few times in a given day. The footage could have been spliced together from years of beach trips in which each dog surfed only a couple of times before dropping from exhaustion. I would be more impressed if these bulldogs were instead going on a 10-mile hike in 80 degree heat, as ANY dog should be able to do without issues. Running a few steps, then standing and panting is not a good example of athleticism.
Third, note that the dogs are never seen surfing in more than about 4" of water. That's because bulldogs are so bulky and short-legged that they can't swim. I've seen two bulldogs accidentally fall into swimming pools--they both sunk like bowling balls to the bottom, and would have died there if people hadn't sprung into action and swum down to save them.
Regarding the pug, I'm impressed that it can swim. However, the "surfing" is just a dog standing on a surf board while the owner stands up and paddles.
that of course is why I posted the videos.to show that nay "you tube" or any movie can be altered doctored, manipulated or edited to prove a point.. case in point PDE
DeleteThat Bulldog puppy video is desperately sad!
ReplyDeleteCan the owner not lie the pup down and put a cushion under its head to keep the airways open whilst it sleeps, to ease that poor pup's suffering?
ReplyDeleteI'm going to have nightmares tonight about that puppy! Imagine spending a big part of your day desperate for uninterrupted sleep and all you can imagine is a few short seconds...
for S.K.Y. I work in a dog swimming pool and *SOME* bulldogs and pugs can swim in that type of environment. The owner of the bulldog I swam this morning would not deliberately swim him in natural water, especially with any sort of current or waves. He needs to swim for exercise because he's prone to overheating and needs nonweightbearing exercise -- still not a poster-dog for health. The dog is 6 now and the owner is already worrying about losing him because bulldogs average about 8 years at death. I hope the owner will switch breeds after this guy leaves. The dog is cherished, but the owner deserves a dog with better health and athletic aptitude.
ReplyDeleteActually, I think I saw info on the PDE blog that in a recent study, it was found the average life expectancy of a bulldog is something like 3-4 years old. So the 6 year old has already beaten the system a bit.
DeleteAs advised I have been onto you tube and have seen some of tyhe videos which appear quite upsettting. But it is very dangerous to diagonse cause and effect from a video, in the same way that is is dangerous to deduce that all of a breed is healthy because of a few surfing videos.
ReplyDeleteWe know that this blog is set up to bring bad news about dogs and dog breeders, but a sense of balance must prevail
Carol
Poor thing has over laping nose wrinkles.. tisk..tisk..
ReplyDelete"But it is very dangerous to diagonse cause and effect from a video, in the same way that is is dangerous to deduce that all of a breed is healthy because of a few surfing videos"
ReplyDeleteVery true.
Let's move on from the continual tennis match of supposedly healthy versus supposedly unhealthy videos of brachycephalic dogs.
It obviously doesn't help and only goes to show that there is variation within the health of these brachy breeds and also variation in what some view as "normal" (and therefore wouldn't see it as a health issue) and "abnormal" (and therefore do see it as a health problem).
With these breeds......pugs, pekes, french bulldogs and English bulldogs I believe the breed standards DO predispose them to health issues especially with regards to breathing and ocular problems.
Will ALL of them be bred with one or the other problem?.....absolutely not, but there will be plenty (sorry, ARE plenty) of dogs out there that do have problems.
Are there breeders out there doing their best to try and breed these dogs as healthy as they possibly can, free from exaggerations??.....Absolutely.
Are ALL the dogs they breed free from respiratory and ocular problems?......I doubt it.
I would therefore like to ask if it is acceptable to have breed standards that create such a fine line between producing healthy and possible unhealthy dogs?
UKC has made changes to many breed standards in an attempt to clarify the line between healthy and unhealthy. However, a breed standard only does so much--it's the interpretation of the breed standard by breeders and judges that really matters.
ReplyDeleteHere's a sample:
http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/Breeds/CompanionDog/EnglishBulldog06012012
I have a healthy, athletic two year old Airedale and if she woke up one day having that much difficulty breathing, I'd really consider putting her down (assuming it were a permanent condition.) There's no real quality of life for a dog in that condition, in my opinion. Such a shame to see any dog suffer that way, let alone a little puppy.
ReplyDeletebut your dog is not Brachycephalic..
Deletewhich reminds me about the other kinds of cephalics..
Mesaticephalic.. found in Labs and etc.. Average muzzle
Dolichocephalic.. found in Greyhounds and etc.. Long muzzle
I was just speaking hypothetically. If my dog somehow suddenly developed a condition similar to being brachycephalic, in which she could survive and function somewhat normally but be constantly out of breath and never go for a hard hike like she does now, not go out on very warm days, etc. I don't think it would be fair and I don't think it's fair to breed dogs who will never know anything but that kind of a life.
DeleteBrachycephalic is the one that can cause discomfort and suffering, if an animal cannot breath freely it cannot live life freely, I simply don't understand how anyone can justify breeding animals that are destined to suffer with life's most essential function? Who gains the most from having excessive wrinkles and not having a nose that is fit for function, the dog or the fancy?
DeleteKate Price says
ReplyDelete"Let's move on from the continual tennis match of supposedly healthy versus supposedly unhealthy videos of brachycephalic dogs......I would therefore like to ask if it is acceptable to have breed standards that create such a fine line between producing healthy and possible unhealthy dogs?"
The Kennel Club breed standards now state that "A Breed Standard is the guideline which describes the ideal characteristics, temperament and appearance of a breed and ensures that the breed is fit for function. Absolute soundness is essential. Breeders and judges should at all times be careful to avoid obvious conditions or exaggerations which would be detrimental in any way to the health, welfare or soundness of this breed. From time to time certain conditions or exaggerations may be considered to have the potential to affect dogs in some breeds adversely, and judges and breeders are requested to refer to the Breed Watch section of the Kennel Club website here http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/breeds/watch for details of any such current issues"
Its you who needs to move on Kate.
Carol
DOH!
DeleteSilly me.
" From time to time certain conditions or exaggerations may be considered to have the potential to affect dogs in some breeds adversely"
Yes......tis called extreme brachycephalia.
Here's a dog breeder saying muzzles are getting shorter in many dog breeds - and in teddy bears! In the beginning there is a teddy bear collector's comment about teddy bear noses getting shorter all the time too. Cuteness, the root of all evil?
ReplyDeletehttp://chicchoix.com/blog/?p=1433
I own smooth collies, we have long noses but then sometimes too narrow to accommodate canine teeth...
I assume your smooth collies don't find breathing difficult with those long narrow noses? Lets not forget just how important breathing actually is, lets also not forget that if a defect such as a mouth not being able to accommodate teeth our moral duty to ensure that such stock are never bred from.
DeleteI make no assumptions about you personally, but the obvious ignorance within the dog breeding fraternity is often immensely shocking, if a breeding animal be it dog, cat, cow, horse produce offspring with defects it should be removed from the breeding programme permanently isn't that basic animal husbandry and preservation of a breed?
Yes, my dogs go jogging and training and compete in agility in summer when it's +30 C. They never have trouble breathing and even when panting, there's no sound in it. So I'm happy with that.
DeleteWhat sometimes happens is the underjaw may be too weak and then the lower canine teeth grow into the upper jaw. They need to be operated. This doesn't happen a lot, but enough so you can't actually say that it's rare. These dogs are absolutely exluded from breeding! Even if the teeth are normal but the underjaw a little bit weakish, the breeder looks for a partner with a strong jaw. Also show judges point out weak jaws, write it in the critique (Finland, we always get written critiques) and may give the dog a lower grade because of the defect.
And I think this is how it SHOULD be when there are structural weaknesses in the breed... and why we don't have more of them.
Maybe whoever posted this video can now see that it may have breathing problems and take it to a vet though. It can have an operation to make it more comfortable and it does have smaller airwaves because of the shorter nose.
ReplyDeleteThis videos reminds me of my 12-weeks old puppy who had pneumonia, what caused holes in her lungs and that caused collapsed lungs.. She also had trouble breathing and couldn't lay down.. So sad these brachycephalic dogs ALWAYS have to be in so much pain.
ReplyDeleteThe puppy didn't survive.
"Maybe whoever posted this video can now see that it may have breathing problems and take it to a vet though. It can have an operation to make it more comfortable and it does have smaller airwaves because of the shorter nose"
ReplyDeleteWhile I hope so, it is doubtful. If they did, they would have altered the video description/title to warn others about what was really happening. A lot of people get defensive if you suggest they are not interpreting their pet's behavior correctly.
Look at Denver the Guilty Dog. Any dog behaviorist will tell you Denver isn't feeling guilt, and is instead showing submissiveness/fear due to the owners tone of voice/body language. The owner doesn't care though because then he would look bad for punishing the dog for no reason, and because he wouldn't be able to sell more "guilty dog" t-shirts.
To Sky and rest bulldogs can't swim the sink like bowling balls I am sorry but that is utter rubbish, my bulldogs all swim and in rivers and lakes without any issues what so ever, yes there are lots of badly bred dogs but so much focus seems to be on the bulldog. a correctly bred bulldog is as healthy as any other dog there are in fact breeds that are not counted as high profile in real trouble health wise as i have learned from varies health seminars and various specialists.... funny how so many people quote things as fact that are indeed utter rubbish just because u have seen some like does not mean it is a problem throughout the breed..Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity!!!
ReplyDeleteI watched another of these videos with a pug falling asleep sitting - and in the video description, it said (probably in response to this phenomenon being brought up in PDE: Three Years On) "He does not have breathing problems because..." (Here it comes) "...he's not a purebred pug!"
ReplyDelete-.- Well, sir, I don't think your dog's airways give a damn what his pedigree looks like.
DID THE PUPPY LIVE???
ReplyDelete