Tuesday, 27 March 2012

"A bit too much haw..."

When I blogged two weeks ago re the Basset Hound Ch Buzzed Lightyear at Dereheath being disqualified at Crufts, it created a lively discussion in the comments - with a couple of contributions from a top American Basset breeder "outraged" by what had happened.

In the main, US Bassets are much less exaggerated than many of the dogs in the UK showring, so I googled to see what this breeder's Bassets were like and found she currently had a litter of pups on the ground with, well, frankly the worst eyes I had ever seen.  I posted a link. In my heart, I hoped the breeder would admit that the eyes were bad and say it was something she was worried about and trying to breed away from , but no. Her response was: "...the litter you have commented upon has probably the least chance of developing glaucoma of any dogs in the US due to a great deal of research, careful breeding and a lot of money spent. Frankly, if you give me a choice between eliminating glaucoma and a bit too much haw showing...well the answer should be clear to anyone I think. I've NEVER known of a Basset going blind from ectropia and/or a lot of haw but I could name way too many who have gone blind from glaucoma."

As several people commented, it should not be a case of either/or.   Anyway, the breeder has now taken her website down and I've had a few people wanting to see the pictures write in to say the link is no longer working.  Suspecting that the site might become unavailable in the wake of the criticism, I cached the pix at the time, so for those who want to know what we were talking about, here they are.

It makes me incredibly sad to see these pictures. Have we really lost our way so much that anyone can really think this is all right?






 



101 comments:

  1. Part Two: http://www.gossipdogblog.blogspot.co.uk/

    ReplyDelete
  2. You might like to save some of the headshots on this page too. Scroll down to near the bottom of the page

    http://www.kennel-chervood.dk/?page=dogs&id=29

    This is the controversial Clumber bitch who was disqualified at Crufts 2012, who many people are claiming on the internet has normal eyes and no ectropion. Now how much haw shows in a photo can depend on whether the dog is looking up or down , and the angle from which the photo is taken. But one thing is sure, if a dog has tight close fitting eyes, with no haw and no ectropion, then it should be impossible to take a photo where the haw is clearly visible!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well yes, the ectropion is clearly visible - although to be fair no obvious soreness. And it was good to see the dogs out and about other than at shows clearly having a good time.

      Jemima

      Delete
    2. Look at "bath"on the Cherwood page.

      Delete
    3. Even in dogs with tight eye rims, the haw can be visible at times especially when a dog is tired or just woken up. I'm not defending the Clumber bitch, just saying that it is possible to clearly see the haw in dogs with tight eye rims.

      Delete
    4. Yes if by haw you mean third eyelid but not if by haw you mean the inner surface of the eyelid.

      Delete
  3. Thats the saddest thing ive seen and sadder still is that someone really truly thinks thats acceptable. It will never ever be acceptable to anyone apart from the breeder who can still manage to justify it ...to themselves anyway

    ReplyDelete
  4. How is that aesthetically appealing it gives me the creeps, maybe its that great a bassett it doesn't need eyes.
    This is bad breeding but there is many breeds that aren't like this, my own breed the jap spitz has a tiny gene pool but in the main is a healthy breed with a few breeders spending considerable money brining fresh blood over here.
    We are nothing like this breeder here :( its a shame you give the impression were all like her.

    ReplyDelete
  5. How can this animal see? I was prepared for a 'hung-over' look but the skin doesn't open over the eyes! Without corrective surgery, it's likely to go blind sooner rather than later. But at least it won't be from glaucoma... bleh.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I am just appalled by these pictures - so I'm afraid the answer to your last sentence, Jemima is yes, we have completely lost our way if this pup's breeder thinking this is OK is indicative of how other basset breeders' feel (but maybe not, lets hope they also see how this pup has been disfigured by selective breeding). This just proves even more Jemima how incredibly important the work you are doing is - so many breeders seem to be incapable of viewing their dogs objectively as they love them as they are. Let us never forget that breed standards are man-made and we have strayed into terrible, terrible territory with some breeds - the state of this poor basset's eyes is really worthy of prosecution for causing suffering I feel.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Poor puppies, surely they are not able to see already because of the skin covering their eyes?! Can't the breeder see what she's done to them?

    ReplyDelete
  8. "It makes me incredibly sad to see these pictures. Have we really lost our way so much that anyone can really think this is all right?"

    Apparently we have. The blindness is in the people who's eyes can see but they do not look.

    ~Ann Cardon

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There is nothing to stop American breeders continuing to breed dogs with eyes like this or show judges continuing to give them awards. The Chair of the AKC has made it very clear, they will NEVER have vet checks at dog shows in the US. He has given them a green light . Lets hope our KC stands firm and that dogs like this are disqualified at UK shows

      Delete
  9. This is tragic - and as always it's the dogs who suffer. What difference can it possibly make if this dog's eyes are glaucoma- free when they are almost totally occluded by skin? And it must - should, I fervently hope - be a constant process cleaning out that poor exposed skin at the bottom. Confiscate these pups, sterilize the breeding parents, and prosecute the breeder - make an example of just one here on the US and the rest will start singing the 'self-regulation' tune quickly enough.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And who gave you the right to criticise meredith? what are your qualifications to make such judgements. I would think the same as Ms Harrisons, ZILCH !

      Delete
    2. Meredith, like the rest of us have the right to criticise, becaue we can SEE!
      Our qualifications to make such judgements are -
      1) Being humans with an aversion to sickening abuse.
      2) Having eyes and brains that allow us to view the above photos.

      Gees, I've been following this blog for weeks and weeks, and yours is the very first comment I've felt the need to reply to, because it was so Stupid!!

      Delete
  10. Thank goodness - at least - that this 'breeder'? is off-line albeit I sure temporarily..but this pup will remain a sad case..how unfortunate. When will the 'stupid human tricks' stop? As much as I regret saying..cut PETA loose on these folks. If they are intentionally breeding for this display of blatant animal cruelty (yes..I hold no quarter here) then prosecution is needed.. a clear cut case if in fact the breeder's response is that of complacency and validity..and should be read as admission of guilt..

    trying to remain rational

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Egads, not them! Do you know they once published a book on how to make your cat into a vegetarian? I swear I speak the truth. The fact that it's cruel to feed an obligate carnivore a meat-free diet is beyond them, but of course they don't think we should own animals at all. My hope is that if we can wake some people up, we can keep PETA out....

      Delete
  11. Not PETA, please, given their stated views re pet ownership and breeding.

    The aim of this blog is to prompt the action that needs to be taken before it is too late - before, in other words, organisations like PETA get a true foothold.

    Jemim

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you give PETA guns everyday.. in fact they love to quote you along with the HSUS their "sister" organization

      dogs.... fleas...

      Delete
  12. Very few people use bassetts to actually hunt in the U.S., and though the U.S. dogs may be less exaggerated than their UK brethren, this is (for the most part) still pretend stuff with no guns, fancy dress up clothese, and tea and sandwiches serves. I kid you not.

    In the U.S. the number one animal that is hunted is the rabbit, but we do not use bassetts to do that, but beagles, and as a consequence we have very good beagles that can do the job, and are as healthy as racehorses. No one dresses up beyond a decent set of boots and well-worn briar pants.

    The point is that if you move working dogs away from the true work, you get wreckage because people have NO idea what they are breeding for or why. They are engaged in fantasy which quickly becomes "the fancy." This is true for every working breed under the sun from running dog to pointer, from retriever to terrier, from herding dog to rabbit dog, and from sled dog to stock catcher. The devolution of dogs here is directly tied to the absence of real work and a real axis upon which to evaluate the dog.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've used my bassets to hunt rabbits, but admittedly fifty-plus years ago. I cannot imagine hunting anything with the show bassets of today. They have too much of everything except not enough leg. And I suspect that in their current state of deformity, their sniffers probably have been adversely affected, as well. -- Rod Russell, Orlando, Florida USA

      Delete
    2. Fit for function is all well and good but we have to accept that most owners have little or no interest in their dogs doing the work the breed was developed to do.
      We should promote and develop dog activities such as working trials, dog agility and even old fashioned obedience whilst accepting that, for the most part, a dog's function today is to be a companion or family pet.
      I don't think it's doing breeds a diservice to suggest that their long term survival is about developing them as happy, healthy family pets. I think it's just stating the obvious.

      Delete
    3. you might note that most animal rights groups call for an end to hunting with dogs...so what can you expect... lure coursing with live rabbits is condemned in most places.. no wonder people have no idea how to breed a hunting dog..

      Delete
    4. Patrick.. I agree .. disolve the KC and allow pedigreed dog breeders to hold their own shows.. .. tea and sandwiches.. or wellies and what ever it is they eat when wearing them,, awards for "best sleeve dog" or 'best rabbit hunter" .. who cares.. why does any breed need a "registry" these days.. keep the pedigrees on the internet.. for your own club and PDE be damned..

      Delete
  13. Well, if the UK and the FCI countries are serious about ending the breeding of dogs who are so exaggerated that their health and welfare is compromised, and we find that a more moderate type of dog with fewer health problems becomes the norm, it is going to become very difficult for the few countries that continue to breed for exaggerated type to export their dogs - nobody else will want them

    ReplyDelete
  14. Seriously, don't the defenders of this sort of breeding scheme realize the danger of sticking their head in the sand? And this includes the AKC! There are a lot of us who LOVE pure breed dogs and want to see them, as well as conformation shows, continue...albeit with healthier standards. If the PETA crackpots gets hold of this issue, then there's no telling where we'll wind up.

    ReplyDelete
  15. They are all bad but the bottom pup is heartbreaking. The fact that the breeder defends it as an either/or is a bit appalling; is she actually willing to claim that there are no dogs with tight lids AND low risk for glaucoma? Since when does one mutually exclude the other. If I woke up one morning and one of my Corgis had eyes that looked like that, I'd be rushing said dog to the emergency vet whilst dialing the number on my cell phone.

    While I hope that the UK standards trickle over to the US, I doubt they will. One need only glance at images of UK show-line Springers and compare them to US show-line springers to see that we are perfectly happy to have our own standards on this side of the pond, at least in some breeds.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Sigh, yes Jemima, I agree..I did state that I was TRYING to remain rational.
    The PETA slip (something to do with my mother, I'm sure) is somewhat irrational. Carry on as if I'm normal..

    ReplyDelete
  17. I cached them too, Jemima. I knew the breeder would take the photos down. It is amazing to me that a) the breeder put them up in the first place, and b) people would buy these pups! Seriously! What is wrong with people for them to go to this breeder and look at those pups and decide they are so cute they just have to have one! WTH???? If buyers didn't buy them, breeders like this would have no one to sell their puppies to.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And here is the real kicker: the breeder of these pups would likely be quick to slag another breeder who, say, didn't show, or bred crosses, or bred 'pets.' Even if they did health 'testing.'

      I spent some time on the web looking at basset pups and didn't see any nearly so droopy looking as these. Are they the exception rather than the rule?

      Delete
  18. In no way, shape or form are the eyes on those puppies OK.
    Any judge in any country SHOULD excuse those puppies from their ring. I wish I knew what kennel this is and if they have done a lot of winning

    ReplyDelete
  19. Attention breeders of the world:

    There is a difference between health, and health testing. Please learn this difference, and give equal attention to both.

    Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  20. These puppies don't have to worry about glaucoma, they have been created blind already. It breaks my heart really it does. But we have to bear in mind that some in the US thought it was fine and dandy to use a blind and deaf rough collie as a sire and that one of those progeny gained BOB at Westminster Show this year. Thank God we are not yet that bad in the UK, YET, but who knows, it is a rocky road, and if it weren't for PDE and now the KC FINALLY doing something........

    ReplyDelete
  21. What I find interesting is this site, with a very recent Feb 2012 date of last update, claims it's not possible to tell the carrier status of Bassets for glaucoma:

    http://myweb.uiowa.edu/kuehnm/BH.htm

    So how can the breeder be so sure they won't get glaucoma? Unless there's more recent research than February of this year?


    "6. There is currently no sure way to detect carrier animals i.e. healthy animals that may produce affected pups."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The breeder can be sure the pups won't get glaucoma BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE FRIGGIN EYES TO GET GLAUCOMA.

      I was truly not prepared for those photographs. I thought I had seen the worst of everything. So sorry I was wrong about that.

      Delete
  22. These photos are the saddest thing I've seen in a while. Such poor creatures are an indication of the breeder not being able to see the forest from the trees anymore.

    Generally speaking, is it the breeders who have bred for decades for show purposes only who produce the most overdone features? And who are most in denial?

    It caught my attention that many of the people in the documents seemed to be "grand old ladies/men" of breed -type, and it made me wonder about this. Have the decades of enthusiasm towards a breed caused blindness to the features going over the top and freaky? Is there a reputation to hold at any cost?

    These photos made me extremely sad and extremely angry the same time.

    Thank you, Jemima, for the work that you've done and keep doing. /Susanna

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. they have two choices , carry on as they have done for 30 years , insisting that the dogs are fine , they know best and screaming about their rights to do as they please.

      The second choice is admiting they have inflicted suffering on all their beloved dogs for the last 30 years

      its very hard to admit you are wrong , Even harder when you need to admit you have hurt something you care about

      Delete
  23. good god! who on this earth can look at those puppies and think its ok for them to look like that. nearly made me cry to see those pictures and more so to think there are people out there so ignorant to the harm they are doing. :-(

    ReplyDelete
  24. Do breeders seriously think they can use science; testing, profiling etc to pretend this sort of exaggeration is acceptable?
    I don’t normally adopt the language of the Daily Mail but I call on all “dogdom” to understand a little less and condemn a little more. These exaggerations are unacceptable and no one should be backward in saying so.
    Kevin Colwill

    ReplyDelete
  25. Poor, sad little dogs, makes me feel sickened to see them looking like that. Can anything be done medically to help them or will they have to endure this blindness for life? I cant believe they can see with their eyes in that condition. I am sure any medical treatment will be expensive and can only pray they survive, this is the saddest thing I have seen on this blog so far, and that is saying a lot. Heart rending :(

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Val C, there is no medication for this - except in an exjuvantibus sort of way, i e you use soothing ointment to ease the irritation coming from dryness, as you see the tear glands are displaced, tear fluid running out from the eye instead of moistening the cornea. Surgery is in principle the only way to go, and it´s really not complicated either. People get this condition sometimes in old age, skin having lost elasticity. You make an incision shaped like a Z lying on its side, cut out the surplus skin and stitch the ends together. Problem here would be, I think, that the poor puppies naturally will grow and so need to expand the skin...

      Entropion, upper lid folding inwards and ulcerating the cornea, is perhaps a greater danger of eventual blindness here.
      As to the cause of the blindness of their breeder, I´m at a loss. If there is a law against cruelty to animals in the U S, somebody needs to demand it be applied.

      Delete
  26. There has - so far - been a noticeable silence from the UK show basset community re these pups.

    I shall take that as a good sign.

    Jemima

    ReplyDelete
  27. Poor little souls.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Goes to show how tenuous a grasp of reality breeders such as this have. Good common sense would tell anyone with feet on the ground that such dogs are very far from a desirable thing. It makes me unhappy and very angry that breeders such the one you highlight here would intentionally seek to breed defects such as those visible in these pictures. I really wish these people would take up pottery.

    ReplyDelete
  29. I think these pups have cherry eye.

    It makes it look far worse.

    This is a congenital defect.

    It's not the same as ectropion, and it can happen in beagles, too.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I cant see any cherry eye. But its hard to be shure from those pictures.
      PL

      Delete
    2. I agree - does not look like cherry eye to me either.

      Jemima

      Delete
  30. ...and look at those ears, talk about extreme. They are set so low on the head and are so long and heavy, is the ear canal even open?
    There needs to be a new Mental Health DX code for people who do this to animals.

    ReplyDelete
  31. lie down with HSUS.. get up with PETA or the "Green Party" whom seem to be in full support of you and PDE or the RSPCA who also think you are on the right track..
    all animal rights groups.. all supportive of you.. connect the dots.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What you "don't even discuss breeding ethics or welfare issues, it might give PeTA and HSUS ammunition against us!" morons don't seem to understand is that this discussion, about ethics and welfare issues in regards to breeding dogs, IS GOING TO HAPPEN, WITH OR WITHOUT BREEDERS. By being involved in the discussion, breeders can both direct it and control the message. By refusing to be involved, breeders not only lose any opportunity to get real information out there, but they LOSE CREDIBILITY with the public as well.

      Delete
    2. So unless we do the opposite to PETA in all things we are animal rights.

      You know even if you dont like or agree with someones ideals sometimes they are going to be right.
      So many varied groups agree with PDE ( vets, pet owners , breeders ) because there are serious problems and things need to change, deal with it.

      Delete
    3. Can we please not lump PETA and HSUS in the same category? I know this isn't the point of the blog, but HSUS has actually done a lot of good for dogs: they sponsor spay/neuter clinics, provide relief teams for dog rescue in disaster areas, and actively work against breed specific dog legislation and puppy mills. WHICH IS MORE THAN I CAN SAY FOR THE AKC! Unlike PETA, they actually do some good for animals.

      Delete
    4. wow you really need to read up on the HSUS.Until only recently they promoted the KILLING of all "pit bulls .(even 6 week old puppies)

      HSUS's Chris Schindler. Three months after the Woodall raid, Schindler testified in a North Carolina court that un-weaned pups are "too dangerous to live" and joined with other HSUS employees in urging the deaths of every one of the Wildside Kennels dogs. Schindler, like Goodwin, remains an employee in good standing at HSUS. . .despite the "sea change" at HSUS.

      from the excellent blog Blue Dog State..190 dogs were killed .. including nursing puppies..

      PETA and the HSUS share many features.

      AKC does do legislative work that fights BSL.. you need more education..

      Delete
    5. Was not familiar w/ the blog you mention so I had a look. Gosh. Another bottom feeder pumping Humane Watch, which for those of you not familiar with that disgusting "org" is merely a face for the scam run by lobbyist Rick Berman, one of the most unsavory, unscrupulous, dishonest characters in the Washington.

      http://humanewatch.info/blog/2011/07/09/humanewatch-lies-so-shelter-pets-die/

      The AKC has for years fought practically every law that would benefit the welfare of animals. In doing so, it has guaranteed its own eventual irrelevance.

      Delete
    6. you may not like the messenger.. but you cannot refute the message..
      Blue Dog State was in existence way before Humane Watch..HSUS promoted the KILLING of all "pit bulls" for years.. do you deny that?

      AKC? really ???what laws do you write about?

      Delete
  32. I suggest you contact Dr Claudia Orlandi of Topsfield Bassets if you want information that is clear and precise.. but of course you won't.. so much more fun to "diss' people through photos Claudia also lectures on breeding and has a fabulous book on the ABC's of Breeding.. maybe you might like to read it.

    http://www.topsfieldbassets.com/topsfield%20and%20info%20sectionsa.htm

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I believe the pictures ARE CLEAR and PRECISE bestuvall..I don't require anyone with a degree to inform me that I suffer from hair loss..are you coherent?? What could the doctor extrapolate on with regard to assessing this as normal and healthy..and if you are indeed implying that she has then I have no confidence in her credibility and would equate her to more of the same with regard to injustice to dogs.

      Delete
    2. Umm Barry take a deep breath and your meds..I have no idea what she would say about these dogs.. but it might be a good idea to ASK her. as she is the top breeder of bassets in the USA..

      Delete
  33. I can't defend these puppies as opposed as I am to your views and your methods but I ask the question - you say a "top American" basset breeder. How do you know that and do you know if she does any health testing or just talks a good game. A lot of people make claims that are anything but true.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. She certainly seems to be well-regarded. Has been showing/breeding for 40 years and has finished 50 champions.

      Jemima

      Delete
  34. Where are all the screaming Basset breeders now? Not a peep from a single one. Shame on the breeder of these dogs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm all for rewriting standards and rejoice at seeing the KC making decisions to uphold healthy standards. But I think people are too fast to get on bandwagons.

      Yes, those photos look awful, and I feel for the puppies. The breeder was pretty stupid to put the photos online. As Retrieverman pointed out, it may be that they suffer from cherry eye, not ectropian. Hard to tell from the photos. It's not established that cherry eye is hereditary, and this may be one of those disasterous unhealthy litters that happen once in a blue moon. It seems unlikely that any breeder of any breed would deliberately breed for puppies with whatever condition this is.

      Ectropian is a relatively minor item in the list of health problems created by breeding for extreme conformation. With bassets, it's well below the problems of heavy build and long spine which often result in spinal problems, joint problems, and inability to mate naturally. I'd put it more on par with the long ears, which are infection prone.

      Delete
    2. and so you published these photos why??

      Delete
  35. I can't even see their eyeballs! or are those their eyeballs but red in colour instead of white?

    ReplyDelete
  36. Annie Macfarlane28 March 2012 at 11:11

    You can always rely on Bestuvall to stick up for the side THAT IS CAUSING PAIN AND SUFFERING!! I have never seen eyes like this in my life.... I don't understand how any breeder can put up a pic of a puppy with eyes like this and think that people are going to come flocking to buy them.

    We are not talking about any other subject than the puppies here Bestuvall.....and if you see something that we don't then please enlighten us with your words of wisdom.

    Poor babies! I would think that the Basset breeders here in the UK would be disgusted too.

    When you take a working dog into your heart, if you are breeding you must remember it's roots; the job it was created to do. When you lose sight of the true reason for the breed, you end up breeding exaggerated dogs. So very sad....but what's worse is that the breeder of these puppies can't see it...so there is no hope for future puppies either.

    Now I'm off out with my perfectly formed working cocker, 15 year old crossbreed and 2 bracchi italiani...who aren't perfect but enjoy hunting in the forests....for a lovely walk in this absolutely gorgeous weather we're having here in Scotland. Can't believe I'm walking in jeans and a t-shirt in March. I hope everybody else is enjoying this fantastic weather too.. xxxx

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. would be interesting to see these dogs as full grown bassets.
      i did not "stick up " for anything.. in fact I made no comment at all as I have seen this blog use photos to show all sorts of thing that are not true and without seeing these dogs in person I think that no one can comment. This breeder has been vilified without due process.. something we see more and more..
      I suggested contacting Dr. Orlandi, as she is well known not only as a Basset breeder but also as an expert in the field of dog breeding. Think Jemima will try to contact her..?

      Delete
  37. You know the boiled frog syndrome? Where the frog doesn't notice the water getting hotter, the change is too slow? Like this breeder.
    But Jemima, you will not get such people's heads out of the sand until you lose the bee in your bonnet about showing, that destroys your credibility. You pick on the 15 'fashion victim' breeds ignoring the other 190-odd, some rare breeds preserved, others enhanced, by showing.
    I breed and show standard poodles differing little from those that hauled dog sleds through 1000 miles of Alaska's Iditerod race, herd sheep in Scotland, or go hunting elsewhere. Most dogs of course go to the pet market, where to have a good life they must find a good owner. If you think appearance unimportant there, you know nothing of human nature. We show our dogs because we're proud of them, what's wrong with that?
    Albeit we do cringe sometimes seeing those afflicted breeds at shows: thank you for doing something about it.

    ReplyDelete
  38. 50 champions in 40 years means nothing if you don't know how many litters were bred and how many dogs were shown. I would not make a judgement about the quality of the breeder unless I know who she/is and can judge for myself but these puppies are certainly not what I would want to see.

    ReplyDelete
  39. I will say that this is not typical of the basset community I know. As someone has suggested, look at a REAL top breeder's kennel - Topsfield. No exaggerated eyes there, just good sound functional dogs. As far as the ears, of course there is an ear canal, if you took the time to study the breed and its function, you would know why they have such pendulous ears. Form follows function people. Not every dog can look like a generic pariah dog - long legs, prick ears, etc.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There is no function in wrinkles, overly large ears or drooping eyes.
      There are a lot of working scent hound breeds without these abnormalities.
      PL

      Delete
    2. Interesting to see the breeder of these pups posting on the Exhibitors' Choice and Voice FB site as follows:

      We, the undersigned members of the Basset Hound Club of Southern California Inc., are writing to lend our support for the Canine Alliance in the United Kingdom. We are also protesting the disqualification of the Basset BOB at Crufts due to the vet check determination. The haw in the Basset has been an important breed characteristic since the breed was first developed and has never caused an issue with blindness or discomfort in the breed. According to historical accounts the Basset Hound has had a prominent haw since Sir John Millais wrote what was perhaps the first recognized breed description published in Cassel’s Illustrated Book Of The Dog in 1881. It states “The eyes are a deep brown and are brimful of affection and intelligence. They are pretty deeply set, and should show a considerable haw. A Basset is one of those hounds incapable of having a wicked eye”. Even the Chairman of the Kennel Club admits that “Although six dogs failed they did so principally because of adnexal eye conformation already well recognized in several breeds but the degree of their seriousness is not yet an agreed consensus”. We are not protesting the need for all exhibitors to present healthy Basset Hounds in the ring and we recognize the necessity for breeders to breed healthy dogs. However, when even the experts do not agree as to the effect the haw has on good ocular health, it is our opinion that the Kennel Club is being highly unreasonable in requiring dogs to be disqualified for this condition. We respectfully request that the vet checks be discontinued permanently as these are flawed and exceedingly discriminatory. Failing that, we would ask that the shape of the eye in Basset Hounds, including the haw, be excluded from the veterinary check examination until there is consensus on this issue among veterinary experts, judges and breeders.

      Delete
    3. With all due respect, Veterinary experts are playing in a wholly different leage of expertise than judges and breeders. The idea that veterinary expertise is equal to judges' and breeders' expertise is a nice example of the Dunning-Kruger effect in the latter.

      If you have observed the dog world on the internet, the common narrative seems to be the baseless adoration of breeders (or, rather, BREEDERS!!!) in combination with not particularly well-funded critiquing of veterinarians. Inferiority complex, anyone?

      Delete
    4. It's likely that in 1881, the author of the breed standard didn't realise that having haw showing could cause discomfort to the dog. We now know differently. Welcome to the Twenty First Century.

      Delete
    5. Interesting to see the slightly misleading quote from Sir John Millais. His Bassets were originally working hounds imported from France (no obvious haw apparent in older prints and photos of French Bassets) . He then crossed Basset with Bloodhound to get more bone and substance ........ and also got loose eyes with the haw showing

      Delete
    6. Fran says:t's likely that in 1881, the author of the breed standard didn't realise that having haw showing could cause discomfort to the dog. We now know differently. Welcome to the Twenty First Century.

      what?? people here are saying they can tell from a PHOTO if a dog is "suffering" from ectropian.. so are you saying that in the 1880's people could not see this? Looks to me that suffering is suffering no matter when you see it..

      Delete
  40. Go on, tell us why they have such long ears. And please dont give us the bullshit that its because ears channel the scent to the nose

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. are we now saying that long ears are a "problem"..as was said.. it will never be "enough" until all dogs look exactly alike

      Delete
    2. Stupid comment! You obviously have no idea of the medical problems with overly long ears or you dont care.
      Hunting bassets have long ears but nothing like show bassets.
      PL

      Delete
    3. LOL.. I am sure you will tell me with your wealth of knowledge about all things medical. Breed them like you want them.. nothing is stopping you and no one really gives a fig about your breeding program ( if you have one)

      Delete
    4. Thanks for your answer. Now I know! You dont give a damn about dog health!
      No I am not a breeder but a vet, only two weeks ago I had to put a basset out of his misery caused by stupid show breeding.
      PL

      Delete
    5. no vet would condemn breeders like you do. or if you do them I feel very sorry for your clients and their pets

      Delete
    6. as a vet do you never have to put pets out their misery that are the result of "stupid" cross breeding.. or "stupid" mis matings.
      Sadly euthanizing pets due to all sorts of maladies is a job that vets take on when they become vets.. I watched a very nice 6 month old mixed breed "put to sleep" last week at the vet due to kidney failure.. no one called the owner "stupid". Also had a friend put down the 12 year old pedigreed dog due to kidney failure.. which one is more "stupid" the person who tested their dogs parents for KD and had the dog live until 12 .. or the breeder of the "mixed breed dog' who did not testing at all.?? An attitude like yours in your profession makes me think you need a very long vacation.

      Delete
    7. But how can stupid crossbreedings excuse intentional breeding for unhealthy conformation?
      I an hardly alone in my profession in speaking up against breeding for unhealthy conformation.
      PL

      Delete
    8. so the basset was killed for .. what .. long ears?/ wrinkles? short legs? Ectropian? what part of "stupid show breeding" caused this dog to be killed based on its breed? It would be interesting to find out

      Delete
    9. Cronic dermatitis caused by the wrinkles.
      And cronic ear problems caused by too heavy ears.
      PL

      Delete
    10. so you must put many bloodhounds to sleep as well.. shar peis.. and more..many breeds have "heavy ears'.and do not have to be put to sleep.. many dog have wrinkles as well.. I would guess ( and I am not a vet) that a problem like this would be due to a weak immune system ( something that can happen to any breed or non breed) and not due to extremes in breeding.. if that were so then many of this breed would be "put to sleep" for the same thing..
      why would "heavy ears" cause a chronic ear problem. Don't you see that more in breeds that swim.. like gun dogs? and why would weight cause an ear problem.. the ear drum and inner ears are usually affected by moisture.. not weight..

      Delete
    11. Skin folds can and do cause or exacerbate chronic skin problems. When ears are very heavy it prevents air circulating.

      So both the skin folds and pendant ears on Bassets predispose the dog to problems. It doesn't mean they'll definitely suffer, and it doesn't mean that a poor immune system wasn't also part of the equation. But, bottom line, Bassets are known to suffer from malassezia (a yeast/fungal dermatitis) which affects skin and ears and it is made worse by skin folds and other areas that trap moisture such as pendant ears.

      Some good info here from the UK Basset Hound Health Group:

      http://bassetsrus.co.uk/malassezia.html

      Jemima

      Delete
    12. Bloodhounds and Shar Pei are as bad as show Bassets.
      But does that make Bassets healthy?
      PL

      Delete
    13. malassezia affects all sorts of dogs..interesting to see a lay person who does not even own the breed discussing what is wrong with the breed
      chronic malassezia affects gun dogs often. moisture is the culprit..few dogs are euthanized from this condition and since many dogs have it.. hardly fair to call it "bad breeding".
      Bloodhounds are a breed that has not changed in the many years they have been in existence.. so now the Bloodhound Standard is "bad"?/

      Delete
    14. not you.. the blogger.who also owns a gun dog.. a breed that should spend much time in the water..many dogs have "yeasty ears'.. many of them prick eared dogs.. as a vet you must agree to that.. malazzezia affects all breeds of dogs.

      Delete
  41. Oh my goodness! So wrong and so sad.

    I don't understand the mentality of breeders who think this is right because "breed standard" tells them so.

    Louise.

    ReplyDelete
  42. “The eyes are a deep brown and are brimful of affection and intelligence."

    The ones in the photographs have eyes that are red and brimful of what looks like irritation.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I laughed. Spot on.

      Delete
  43. Ridiculous! A poor dog with bad eyes! It has nothing to do with the breed! The witch hunt continues with realy bad journalism. I have a number of Bassets and I have never seen eyes like that!
    Tx

    ReplyDelete
  44. hat is a poor puppy with bad eyes! Nothing to do with the breed. Once again sensationalism. I have owned Bassets for 20 years and have never had the unfortune of seeing eyes like that!
    Stop the witch hunt!

    ReplyDelete
  45. That Basset has crappy eyes - smile. It does not represent the whole by any means! I own anuber of Bassets and have done for 20 years and I have never had the misfortune of seeing eyes like that. Get over the sensationalism journalism. It's actually really boring...

    ReplyDelete