The aim was and is to provide a place to monitor and debate the issues on dog breeding and I am delighted that many posts attract a huge number of comments.
Here's a snapshot taken just now of an overview of the Blog's stats since November 2010:
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| Click to enlarge |
Thank you to all those who look in and contribute, whether friend or foe...
most of us are people who are outranged at the way you are speaking about pedigree dogs.We have a facebook page talking about all of the rubbish you come up with PLEASE just look at us good breeders too !!!
ReplyDeleteWell, Anon, at least I give you an opportunity to respond/say you think that what I say is rubbish - whereas any dissenting comment/member is promptly deleted from the anti-PDE Facebook site.
ReplyDeleteIf you believe I have a specific fact wrong here, you are free to challenge it - and I will edit to correct if I have made a mistake. Which, again, is more than can be said for the Facebook site where people are just making up the most ridiculous stuff about me, PDE and anyone who might concur that more needs to be done to ensure pedigree dogs can enjoy a healthy future.
Rubbish? So far, I haven't seen a lot of people who are furious with Pedigree Dogs Exposed assert good points worth noting.
ReplyDeleteThe irony is: the most logical people I have seen commenting on PDE, which for some reason are labelled as anti-purebred by others, are the very same people who ARE breeding purebred dogs; according to the papers anyway.
Jemima allows responsible breeders to speak for themselves repeatedly. She even linked to their blogs and kennels a few time in the past. The funny thing is, the ones she promote as good breeders are already working within the registry system.
I think she's being unbiased, for the most part. Maybe for starter, use an alias. It doesn't have be a real name, but at least it doesn't make a person look like a troll. Secondly, it doesn't seem like she's censoring anyone's opinions others. She's allowing people, which she attacks, to defend their choices.
You want her to stop publishing "rubbish"? Step up to the plate, and start hitting some good ones out of the park. Stop throwing duds, or worse yet: grenades. Make yourself heard and start projecting yourself in good light.
Jemima What makes you so sure that the Pedigree dogs Today are not healthier than they were years ago. Have you any Stats for that!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAs for the facebook site against your programme--Well it more interesting to read than anything I have read on here. Nothing is made up about you and its not been cut and edited unlike your PDE programme was.
So which bits of the childish, unchallenged vitriol being spewed about me/PDE on the anti-PDE Facebook site do you think are true, Lynda?
ReplyDelete1) "There were scenes of the holocaust and concentration camps in PDE when it said all dog breeders are Nazis... and if I now can't find it she must have edited it out because of all the fuss."
2) "JH hates pedigree dogs?"
3) "JH is an animal rights activist/member of PETA?"
4) "JH is only in in for the money and
self-promotion"?
5) "They stopped the epilepsy meds to get the boxer to fit for the cameras - a champ show judge told me so it must be true"?
6) "There were 22,000 complaints to Ofcom about the programme"? (Nine, actually)
7) "From what I have heard, her US 'seminar' went down like a lead balloon! People were asking her what her credentials were and she left very upset"?
8) "JH does not know the difference between a shiba and a westie on her blog, she should to go to spec savers lol/when she blogged me the stupid woman put a westie pic up lol"?
Not a single one of the above is true.
Lie Number 8 relates to this blog, btw:
http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2011/03/shiba-inu-scratching-surface.html
Perhaps you could tell me where I mixed up the Shiba and the Westie?
As for the current state of pedigree dogs, I suggest you read the three independent reports into dog-breeding that followed PDE (and which all confirmed the film's core charges).
You can download them from here:
http://dogadvisorycouncil.org.uk/the-reports/
Whats hilarious is there is always an "Anon" saying how Jemima won't publish their comment and how she cherry picks comments here (which if she did those wouldn't be there) and yet the FB deletes all dissenters.
ReplyDeleteOk, what is the name of the Facebook page? I totally support your efforts Jemima but I am dying of curiosity! :)
ReplyDelete"Stop the BBC Making Another PDE"
ReplyDeletehttp://www.facebook.com/#!/home.php?sk=group_216456245041886
I do not publish every comment, Romany Dog - but I do publish most of them.
Congratulations Jemima! Keep it up!
ReplyDeleteSadly, I am not sure you'll get on to the Facebook site, though, Romany Dog - the Group's self-appointed leader, poodle breeder Mike Davidsohn, has just posted this on the site:
ReplyDelete"I have had to tighten up the group after we had a few members who on checking were not what they appeared. As of now only ADMINS can approve new group members. The dirty tricks brigade have been at work this morning but unfortunately for them they didn't get up early enough."
I am not quite sure what he means by "the dirty tricks brigade" - but imagine it's a reference to those who might be so bold to question, however mildly, what is being written there.
I initially thought Jemima was a nasty anti-pedigree dog person. I didn't like the PDE programme; it highlighted too many bad breeders without any real balance from good breeders who were health testing and removing disease and no mention of the problems faced by badly bred crossbreeds either. BUT this blog has made me realise that JH likes pedigree dogs....but just wants them to be healthy! That's my aim too :-)
ReplyDeleteHere's hoping PDE 2 is a bit more balanced but keeps up all talking.
Any responsible breeder should be pleased these problems are been highlighted and that something is been worked towards trying to improve the health of breeds, or any dogs for that matter. The introduction of these requirements is a start I guess, but many problems, such as epilepsy (which my dog suffers from) are not testable.
ReplyDeleteI also read somewhere else on a FB site that the owners of the epileptic dog withheld the meds so the seizure could be filmed. I do not know the truth but as the owner of an epileptic dog this made me mad. I have a video of my dog having a seizure, as many other epi-owners I know also do, doesnt mean I stopped giving him the meds to get it! If the dog has poor control and seizures occur often its quite easy, especially now with camera phones. Also its so very hard to explain the seizure to a vet, more often than not what the vets sees is a healthy dog, so a video is the best way, often recommended even. By the way when I posted part of this as my reply on the FB page (not theone mentioned above) the whole thread was deleted! Cant remember who started the thread but it was a poodle owner/breeder, possibly a co-incidence?!?
Mmm A lot believe the truth Jemimma and thats what I read on that group.
ReplyDeleteAs for your link Thanks but it did nopt answer my question
Do you Jemimma know for fact that Todays changes to the physical appearance of some Pedigree dogs is reducing their life span etc....
I believe the 1st Bulldog shown was King Dick and he died at 8years old--did he have a shortened face the way you say Show Breeders have changed Todays????
Jemima the facebook page is set up mostly because of the outrage we thought you showed us pedigree dog owners were not evil or in it for the money or there to cause harm to our pets.Some people are cruel and are in it for the money but us people who arn't are passionate and worry about our animals and belive you doing another program is going to affect our dogs more in the long run.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations! I think the blog is great and long may it continue.
ReplyDeleteOn reading the responses it's facinating the knee jerk reactions that seem to come from good breeders who say that they are being tarred with the same brush. If you see footage of an rspca report showing horses tied in a field, emaciated with their head collar embedded into their nose - do we assume that all horse owners are the same - NO. If there is a new report about extremist islam - are all muslims the same - NO. Get the point.
There are fantastic breeders out there who are doing all they can for their dogs - so clearly it's not referring to them.
Why do those who ask for proof of detriment due to confirmation never come back with improvements in their welfare due to the same extreme confirmations! Change should be for the good, not for the hell of it.
Emma
Hi Helen, im sorry to hear that you too have a dog with Epilepsy, its a heart breaking condition, I just want to say for millionth time that I did NOT withold Zaks medication, and you yourself would know that it would be the cruelist thing to do,thank you for the comment, I personally have been in touch with many owners who have dogs with Epilepsy, so it is obviously a problem in the dog world,
ReplyDelete"I personally have been in touch with many owners who have dogs with Epilepsy, so it is obviously a problem in the dog world, "
ReplyDelete...and in the human world too - I teach kids with special needs and have several in my class who are subject to severe epileptic fits - this is a complex condition that affects most species - not just those produced by pedigree dog breeders
if there were a way to click to read this site without giving you credit I would do it..although the graph shows your hits are already way down. I see mostly the same people agreeing to trash everyone else posting here now
ReplyDeleteBijou, Idiopathic epilepsy is rampant in certain purebred dog breeds and it is an inherited, genetic condition. I had a highly inbred german shepherd from U.S. show lines who was epileptic. (Breeder had a guarantee against epilepsy but surprise--didn't return my calls!) It's a huge problem. I know you mention epilepsy in humans to somehow imply that epilepsy in dogs is not due to poor breeding practices, but unfortunately, it most definitely IS due to poor breeding practices. The fact that humans can get the same condition is completely irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteThe Facebook site has over 2,000 members, and you have just a few lap dogs on here who never question your eithics or ability perhpas there should be a KC/BVA scheme to check if they can hear and see ok ?
ReplyDeleteRE FACEBOOK PAGE, WHY WAS,NT I ALLOWED TO COMMENT? SORRY BUT ITS ALL ONE SIDED
ReplyDeleteTo Jo Well maybe its more like Jemima's programme so you should know how Good Pedigree Show People feel then-------as PDE was one sided and none of the ethical/ good people were allowed their comments on there
ReplyDeletePot Kettle Black
The Facebook site has over 2,000 members
ReplyDeleteLOL, did you know that if you scroll down the page, right to the start, many recruits had to actually ask what PDE was and what Jemima had supposedly done. Oh and openly admit to double signing the petition, signing on behalf of their children. What a credible page it is.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThe Facebook site has over 2,000 members, and you have just a few lap dogs on here who never question your eithics or ability perhpas there should be a KC/BVA scheme to check if they can hear and see ok ?
I think if you check back through the various posts in recent months you will see this is blatently not the case. Certain posts have recieved huge numbers of comments and some very in depth and well argued debate from a whole spectrum of people.
I suggest if people like yourself wish to put forward alternative comments to what Jemima and her supporters are saying, then you join in the debate. If you disagree with the 'lap dogs' (?) then write back with reasoned, polite and informed counter evidence rather than just sniping from the sidelines.
The trouble is that a lot of people DO read this blog and then go away and moan about it on other discussion forums but don't bother to offer reasonable arguments on here. Bombarding this blog with anonymous comments which are mostly ill written personal attacks does nothing whatsoever to promote 'purebred/show breeders' as knowledgeable and caring, it only serves to reinforce the impression that we are a bunch of ignorant barbarians!
PLEASE don't perpetuate this impression! Keep an eye on what Jemima is writing and if you don't agree then for goodness sake politely comment and say so giving good supportive evidence!!
And while a few of my comments have gone missing I think (hope)this is a technical error rather than Jemima blocking them ;-)
Congratulations Jemima on good work! I hope you´ll never lose heart. Never mind Semi-literate Anon´s ... :-) You´re needed. Many people who just own and like dogs have been thinking what you write.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations, too, for running a blog where there are so often balanced points of view and interesting news.
If the "group" is to be taken seriously, wouldn't they have been better using a proper petition site instead of a home made effort on Napoleon's personal website. From what I hear he has altered the petition 4 or 5 times. He can add any names he likes to it and no-one would be the wiser. Not only that but everybody who has signed it had better set up their spam boxes to take more mail as all the email addresses are in full public view.
ReplyDelete'The Facebook page has 2,000 members' What is that supposed to prove exactly. The KC has thousands of registered dogs with defaults and. The BNP has thousands of members, doesn't make them right.
ReplyDeletebut there is only ONE person who CONTROLS this blog and only lets HER view be shown, very much like PDE was and PDE2 is threatened to be just her view, so at least the facebook group allow more than one side of the picture to be shown and they havnt made up their minds in advance. Its now rumoured that the BBC will put up any defence if complaints are mande about PD2 as its billed as a personal view onthe subject, well another copout on their "fairness" claim
ReplyDeleteThe problem with the Facebook group, Anon, is that lies about myself and the programme are not corrected even when they are shown to be untrue.
ReplyDeleteThe Group still has up text from an Our Dogs article from June 17 saying that we included pictures of the holocaust in PDE (which we provably did not) and Mr Davidsohn has refused to correct it despite being asked.
A week or so go, there was this exchange on the Group:
Jan Linley: "Does anyone know what reaction Ms Harrison got when she attended and spoke at a seminar across the pond the other month? she obviously went there to stir up trouble along similar lines to here, I understand they would not let her show her programme but the each attendee was goig to get a dvd copy of it."
Izzie Hirst: "From what I have heard, her 'seminar' went down like a lead balloon! People were asking her what her credentials were and she left very upset."
Susan Horsfall: "That's some of the best news I've heard lately :)"
At the weekend, Professor James Serpell, from the University of Pennsylvania, who co-organised the conference, wrote to the Group as follows:
"I came across a recent exchange on your facebook page and feel compelled to correct some serious distortions of fact regarding Jemima Harrison's invitation to lecture at the Purebred Paradox conference that I co-organized with the Humane Society of the United States in Washington DC. It is insinuated that she went there, "to stir up trouble," that we "wouldn't let her show her programme," that her seminar, "went down like a lead balloon," and that she left, "very upset." None of this is true.
"I invited Ms. Harrison to speak at the seminar about the social and political impact of Pedigree Dogs Exposed in the UK. Her presentation was balanced, factual, and extremely well received. I am also happy to report that she left the seminar in good spirits, as did everyone else who attended. We (the organizers) decided not to screen PDE during the conference to avoid inflaming members of the dog breeding and showing community. Ms. Harrison was entirely comfortable with this decision.
"Whatever one's opinion of the programme and Ms. Harrison, it simply scurrilous and cowardly to use the internet to promulgate mendacious gossip of this calibre.
Sincerely,
James A. Serpell, PhD
Marie A. Moore Professor of Humane Ethics & Animal Welfare,
Department of Clinical Studies, School of Veterinary Medicine,
University of Pennsylvania,
3900 Delancey Street,
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6010, USA.
Childishly, the administrators bounced back the email as "undeliverable" - and they've not only not removed/corrected the lies, they've pulled them out and highlighted them in a document as some kind of evidence of my falling star.
As I have written in this month's Dogs Today (out today), I will defend to the death anyone's right to campaign/lobby for what they believe in (after all, it's what I ask for, too). If dog breeders want to try to stop PDE 2 being made, that's totally fine with me. But it does not help anyone's case to campaign on the basis of obvious untruths - well, perhaps except for mine.
I have been fortunate enough over recent months to get to know many breeders, who show dogs, that are indeed very committed to
ReplyDeletea) acknowledging there are health problems in their breed
b) taking concerted and meaningful action to address the issues
c)investing a great deal of their personal resources to improving the health and welfare of their dogs and educating others about the need to do the same.
A quick trawl of the membership of that facebook group reveals that none of these fantastic show breeders belong to it. Reason? Because people who are genuinely determined to eradicate these appalling health conditions from their dogs do not have time nor the appetite to belong to such scurrilous groups.
The members of that facebook group have no commitment to tackling health in pedigree dogs they are just there to protect their ego driven self interests. Tis such a pitiful shame that they do not invest just half as much energy into conquering the health problems in pedigree dogs as they do in trying to trash Jemima.
Many congratulations on the milestone of a quarter of a million page views BTW, Jem. Brilliant. Just as before with PDE, I cannot wait for PDE 2. Sadly the mere existence of that facebook group reveals that PDE2 is still very much needed. With groups like that perporting to be committed to canine health and welfare the dogs really do need more Jemimas and fewer Mr Davidsohns.
Philippa
www.thekarltonindex.com
To Phillipa
ReplyDelete"A quick trawl of the membership of that facebook group reveals that none of these fantastic show breeders belong to it"
And you will no doubt know all the 4000 members personally lol Get a Life
Not 2000---4000 and growing stronger by the day
Over 3700 of which were Mike Davidsohn's "friends" on his Napoleons Webpage personal facebook which was closed down by facebook due to complaints about the lies spread on it. Those "friends" were added without their consent or knowledge by Mike Davidsohn himself. Doesn't sound so impressive when you know the truth does it.
ReplyDeleteTo Ellie Truth is obviously not what you are posting.
ReplyDeleteAny member can leave the group so the "friends" you mention could/ would have left if added without their knowledge---so still 4000 members Explain that please with some of your Truths lol
Well, Anonymous 12:03, I guess I’m one of the ‘lap dogs’. And there I was thinking I was in touch with my inner pit bull. I see years of therapy ahead as I attempt to recover from the identity crisis.
ReplyDeleteAs for my ability to see and hear, I’m happy to say my doctor tells me they are relatively unimpaired; I continue to enjoy using my eyes to read with and my ears to listen with. I then go one step further and use my brain to evaluate the material gathered by the aforementioned reading and listening. This process is called critical thinking.
Well said Dave and Julia! PDE detractors – if you think your argument holds water, make your case. Here’s how it works.
ReplyDelete1. Read properly done research on both sides of the argument, regardless of your own opinion.
2. Think critically about the evidence presented by both sides and evaluate whether it addresses, reinforces or disproves a given argument.
3. If there is no independent research that supports your position, have a good long think.
4. If your argument is disproven by independent research, have a good long think.
5. Numbers 4 and 5 above rest upon the ability to admit you may have got it wrong, however dear to your heart your unsupported beliefs are (and lest I sound incredibly patronizing, yes, I have been known to amend a position or even switch sides entirely after due research and thought).
6. When you have a sound argument that demonstrates critical thinking and is properly supported by real evidence, at this point engage in polite, informed debate.
The following do not constitute proper evidence or argument:
1. anecdote
2. opinion
3. vitriol
4. lies
There are very good breeders, and clubs, out there. Perhaps one reason so few of them engage here is that they know it is not they who are under attack.
While I enjoy a good debate and will always defend anyone's right to express themselves, the generally abysmal level of comment from those who attack Jemima here and elsewhere only serves to confirm my belief that they are not bright enough to be manipulating the genetic structure of another species and should be driven out of the business/hobby/fancy/whatever you want to call it.
lynda [sic] said...
ReplyDelete'To Phillipa [sic]
"A quick trawl of the membership of that facebook [sic] group reveals that none of these fantastic show breeders belong to it" [sic]
And you will [sic] no doubt know all the 4000 members personally [sic] lol [sic] Get a Life [sic]'
Lynda, before you get nasty, look to yourself. You are yet another PDE detractor that demonstrates poor language skills. The pronoun ‘these’ in Phillipa’s comment clearly refers to the breeders she knows personally, not all those who comment on the Facebook site.
It’s actually those of us ‘lap dogs’ who use the English language competently who are laughing out loud. And thank you in advance, I have an excellent life.
Congratulations on the milestone, Jemima! I can't wait for PDE 2.
Lynda, I don't know why you're bragging about 4,000 members in the FB group. That's 4,000 people who are in denial about the problems facing purebred dogs today. Four thousand people who reject science. Four thousand people who are entrenched in outdated ideas about dog breeding based on Victorian eugenics theory. Four thousand people who value "purity" and an arbitrary standard of physical appearance over a dog's ability to live a healthy, pain-free life. How is that something to crow about? I think it is sad.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the reason why this facebook page has so many members is because you have to join it to make any remark about PDE, It also annoys me that all the people on here who like to blast Jemima do not have the courage to put their names down, hiding behind anon, if you have so much to say, put your name to it, Jemima does a wonderful job in letting the world see the what man has done to Pedigree dogs, and I cannot wait to see PDE2 .
ReplyDelete@ Sarah I do apologise for my dyslexia
ReplyDelete@Romany NO Its 4000 ethical show people/ breeders who are fed up with someone's biased opinions and who can only see the "bad" in Pedigree dogs.
Hit the big time and make a documentary about Puppyfarmers --could you handle their backlash?? or indeed would there be any as they imo are not as concerned about their animals as the people speaking up for themselves now
I personally do not have to justify myself to the likes of Jemima--my healthy past and present dogs prove it
4000 ethical show breeders who are quite frankly acting like a bunch of children in a school playground.
ReplyDeleteThey have a right to voice their views and opinions but they are really going about it in what can only be described as a very slow car crash.
If they want people to listen and take them seriously they are really going about it in a very childish and unprofessional manner.
Lynda,
ReplyDeleteIf you really are dyslexic, then I do apologise. However, given that you actively advocate and presumably belong to a Facebook group that publishes provable lies and refuses to correct them or allow dissent (unlike Jemima on all counts), I infer that you are also challenged when it comes to distinguishing fact from fiction. I therefore have a little trouble accepting your word for your being dyslexic and suspect you are just trying to put me in my place.
I was not aware that being dyslexic was considered an acceptable excuse for nastiness, which has come through is several of your comments and which was what I was really attacking, in case you hadn’t noticed.
Romany Dog said, I don't know why you're bragging about 4,000 members in the FB group. That's 4,000 people who are in denial about the problems facing purebred dogs today. Four thousand people who reject science. Four thousand people who are entrenched in outdated ideas about dog breeding based on Victorian eugenics theory. Four thousand people who value "purity" and an arbitrary standard of physical appearance over a dog's ability to live a healthy, pain-free life. How is that something to crow about? I think it is sad.
ReplyDeleteObviously as a Romany you would have psychic skills that would let you read the minds of these Facebook people. As you probably do not then please tell us on what you base your information ?
What studies have you undertaken to prove your hypothesis ?
Finally what is your professional experience to be able to give those claims foundation.
Hello Anonymous (very brave to use your real name lol),
ReplyDeleteJemima believes that pedigree dogs are facing health crisis due to breeding for extreme appearance, inbreeding, and the overuse of popular sires. If you oppose her, you must not share those beliefs. Thus, the 4,000 people on that anti-PDE Facebook group either believe that purebred dogs are NOT facing a health crisis, or they believe that the crisis has nothing to do with their breeding practices but is instead due to vaccines, bad kibble, or toxins in the environment.
It's pretty simple, really.
There is a very interesting article in this weeks Countryman's Weekly about the divide between show and working dogs. It focuses on Bedlington Terriers and says "Show and working dogs were one and the same, now there is a clear dividing line between the two." It starts by saying "The Bedlington show fancy has systematically managed to all but destroy our valiant working breed we know as the Bedlington Terrier or maybe we should say the show judges have; the show fancy has, by and large, just followed suit."
ReplyDeleteIt goes on to say that the dogs in the show ring today would have difficulty in doing the job they were originally bred for.
It makes me wonder that if these dogs are "fit for function" which "function" are they referring to?
I'm not against all that Jemima is saying, but it's more the way she is going about it which I dislike.
ReplyDeleteI am fully aware that there are problems in pedigree dogs-as there are in crossbreeds along with all other animals, but I'm also aware of the people who have worked for years pioneering research that helps eliminate those problems.
As it is though, i think that PDE did more harm than good. I frequently see people who have brought crossbreeds from puppy farmers or byb's and paid £1000+ for them just because they are not pedigrees (and if they are, because they are not from show breeders) so they MUST be healthy. If i ask them why, most of them say it's because they saw "that tv program a few years ago about pedigree dogs"
If you wanted to make a real difference for the health of dogs-pedigree and crossbreeds alike-then I think aiming the attack at puppy farmers, byb's and irresponsible show breeders, would have made a much more positive impact than basically saying that all people with a pedigree dog-especially show people- are cruel, only breed for beauty and couldn't care less about the health of their dogs. (yes I did see the original program, where show breeders and the KC were compared to Nazi's)
Now though, many people are disregarding responsible breeders and only looking for so called "designer dogs" no matter where their from. And no, I don't hate crossbreeds, just the way some people are breeding them with known health problems but ignoring it because they are crosses.
For example, I have nothing against people breeding and wanting to make Labrador/poodle crosses a breed IF they fully use the resources available to ensure the best possible health and future of that breed. If they know exactly where parents came from and know of any problems specific to that line, and If they health test both parents and do not breed from dogs that might be affected with any hereditary disease. As it is, so many people are just breeding un health tested pedigrees because they have been told that crossbreeds are always healthier.
I think what people should keep in mind is that most of the pedigree breeds now were created over 100 years ago. And back then, there were no health tests, no DNA tests and a very limited knowledge of hereditary disease. Most of this new technology have only come about in the past 30 years or so and only readily available in the past decade. By the time people could tell whether a puppy was carrying or could pass on disease, there very all ready so many hereditary problems, sometimes lying unseen for generations. I mean, this technology is still developing, and it takes years and generations to eliminate even 1 disease from 1 breed. Progress is being made, and unfortunately it was completely overlooked in PDE.
Finally, in case it should affect my credibility in some way (and it shouldn't but reading some of the comments on here, it probably would do) I own BOTH pedigree AND crossbreeds. Yes i do show my pedigrees, and both my "mutants" and rescue crosses compete in Agility, even though the pedigree breed is on the "unfit 15" list.