This is a traditional Shar-pei - still being bred by a handful of dedicated breeders in the Far East. As you can see, there is minimal wrinkling and the dog looks supremely fit and functional. Compare her to the Westernised version of the dog, below. Yep, this is how we have 'improved' the Shar-pei, and many feel now that the breed is on the brink of viability because of their health problems (around one in four of the breed suffers from Shar-pei Fever, the complications of which are killing way too many young Shar-pei). Unfortunately, there is as yet no DNA test (although researchers believe they now have a candidate gene) and so many lines are affected that some top breeders don't even try to avoid breeding dogs that are likely to have the condition.
The traditional dog is known as a "Bone-mouth" Shar-pei; the show-type as a "Meat-mouth". Here's why.
If there is anyone west of Hong Kong breeding traditional Shar-pei, I would love to hear from them.
Wow, this is a good one. Very, very sad and regrettable what has happened to this breed at the hands of the show people.
ReplyDeleteA western website for Traditional-style Shar Pei is here: http://www.freewebs.com/traditionalchineseshar-pei/aboutus.htm
ReplyDeleteHi Jemima and thanks for bringing my dearest breed's problems up.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the genetic Fevers and Amyloidosis are the main extremely serious problem, abvout the eyes, other breeds have them tacked and we do aim to breed away from having to tack and entropion, but this is very easily corrected, and the others KILL.
I just have 2 questions that would like to ask your help with.
1 - Who helps us stopping this guys from breeding ill dogs?
2 - If the KC and the SPCGB do not help, shouldnt another authority or law punish this people or put a stop on this?
This is affecting lots of dogs and lots of owners that are suddenly confronted with their dog dying....
Thank you and Speak soon
I have got someone very offended about this comment made 3 years ago. I got to believe for years that there were "clean lines" and "bad lines" . Thats what everyone use to say, so obviously i could not understand why people were allowed to breed from ill lines. I have to also say the The Midlands SHar Pei Club has been very helpful and the KC was too. So now we starting to see some changes, I am not even trying to compete with the shows, I do not show, although i have some show dogs, and i dearly love them. Please let me get on with my way, i only mean well xxx
DeleteThanks Pai - but, although hese dogs are taller and leaner in the body, the traditional breeders would still see them as "meat-mouths" - the head/wrinkles are exaggerated.You can see "traditional" shar-peis advertised here in the UK, but they're not really - just slightly less wrinkled.
ReplyDeleteHere's a trad. pei - Dali Maxim. http://koti.phnet.fi/kikanpei/eindex.html
ReplyDeleteInes, the eyes may not kill but they can blind. I am saddened to hear that other breeds tack too - I didn't know. I hope dearly that some breeders can look at the traditional Shar-pei, see its beauty and resolve to breed dogs with less flesh/wrinkling on the head.
ReplyDeleteBut, yes, Shar-pei Fever/Amyloidosis is clearly an emormous problem that needs tackling urgently. In what way are the KC and the Shar-Pei Club of GB not helping? And what would you like to see happen?
Nanook - thank you for the link. "Maxim" is an amazing-looking dog!
ReplyDeleteOn facebook Giuliana Ventorino made a group for fanciers of traditional type,we have almost 1000 members and are working on an Ebook about this origional Shar-pei,be aware of people call them mixes and sadly many judges do the same.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=173064537107&ref=nf
the pic on top is obviously less wrinkled, but looks a far cry from fit and functional.....her rear looks very weak and i would worry about issues with luxating patellas and ''popping hocks'' with such a lack of rear angulation. and wouldn't her lack of pigment on her nose make her more susceptible to skin cancers? not nice :(
ReplyDeleteThis dog is a champion birch and has produced a line of champions. She is the mother of my dog who him self has sired two champions and all have excellent movements and scores. Pinky is based in HK so I think we can assume the weather is pretty hot out there. Sue walsh
Deleteif a puppy is tacked it can't be shown, over 15yrs ago a whole litter would have had they're eyes tacked, now after all these years you will get maybe one pup need tacking,this was a breed that was close to extinction and i think that must be a improvement it takes along time to breed faults out, the whole problem comes from puppy farms breeding wrinkly pups and because of this people who show are getting 'tar'd with the same brush'
ReplyDeleteBut the problems in terms of the wrinkling/entropion have been bred IN to the shar-pei! The original shar-pei didn't need its eyes tacked.
ReplyDeleteMoreover, breeders have managed to ruin this breed - genetically and conformationally - in just 30 years.
I agree that the pet-bred dogs are worse in terms of wrinkles but it's all relative. Do you honestly believe that the show dog above is an improvement - IN ANY WAY - on the traditional type?
Somebody needs to educate the buyers as well as the breeders. Whilst pups are being advertised as "very cute with lots of wrinkles" ignorant buyers think this is normal and look for more wrinkly pups. This isn't normal and shouldn't be advertised as such. Its exploitation of poor ignorant animals and equally ignorant people. I should know, I am one. I bought my first pei without doing my homework and paid a price that was equally high in money as well as hearbreak. Sharpei fever, luxating patella in both back legs and entropian. RIP Maiya. The Kennel Club has the monopoly, somebody challenge that, set up a newer organisation advocating healthier breeds, let the respectable, honourable breeders with the health and welfare of their breed vote with their feet!
ReplyDeleteJemima you have said that this meeting was held and the issues were put to many people from different authorities so to speak (including the kc) You also asked what we would like to see happen , firstly we would like to see some evidence that the kc are working towards doing something to prevent our breed from basically breeding itself into further health issues , we would also ask why they don't see the need to step in and prevent further damage to an already diminishing pool of so called healthy dogs , these questions don't just fall at the feet of the kc but also the councils who give these so called breeders their licensing in the first place! I feel the kc should stand up and be counted and show what measures they plan to implement in the near future to help combat these ailments rather than sit back , take everyones money and pretend everything is rosie!
ReplyDeleteInes, could you clarify something for me? I don´t know anythuing about the Shar -pei, have only seen pictures of the "show" variety and was quite delighted to see the beautiful dog which Jemima says is the original. What an impressive and good-looking animal that is!
ReplyDeleteWhat I wonder is simple. I know what amyloidosis is, humans can suffer from it. Is it the same? And is this "fever" the same as amyloidosis, or is it a separate entity and them what?
Good grief! Have done a bit of reading-up on FSF and its relation to amyloidosis...FSF is decribed as a recessive trait, and if true that would seem to mean that if the incidence is anything but quite low, the breed would be permeated with the gene. Found a site where a vet recommended urinanalys every third month to catch early signs of renal amyloidosis and treatment with colchicine...! Is there any cost, in unnecessary suffering and death of animals or in preventive/curing medicine, which is too high for those who breed this misery?
ReplyDeleteInes, are you in Europe? The EC laws expressly forbid the breeding of pets where it may produce pain or disease in the offspring. Get together and take these breeders to court! It certainly is about time somebody did.
Baritone! Your comment made me laugh! Yes, luxating patella would be a worry with a hock angle like that, but the angle is no different in the show shar pei. At least the traditional shar pei is heading in the right direction with no excessive wrinkling, a lighter body and a overally fitter looking dog. Neither of them may have luxating patella, but if they do then the condition would be far worsened in the show shar pei.
ReplyDeleteAGain, this is where the KC should step in and refuse to recognise the Western - deformed and unhealthy - Shar pei, but only allow the traditional Far Eastern type.
ReplyDeleteIf these breeders of the wrinkly dogs knew that the KC would no longer register or show their dogs, they'd soon change their tactics.
It's the same with the Bassetts and a number of absurdly bred dogs.
I cannot understand why the KC does not take any action. It's mad. Don't they care?
You can't leave it to the breeders. They are not going to change unless they are forced to do so, because they can't see anything wrong.
Julia Lewis
Not all western shar pei are deformed and unhealthy, and not all traditional far eastern type shar pei are fit and healthy. Unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteYes, Julia, agreed - the KC (and any national Kennel Club) should do that, but neither of them will unless pressure from outside forces them.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, the breeders should be educated - and some strive to educate themselves and seek the advice of vets and geneticists, and honestly inform the buyers about their breeds; but a substantial fraction do neither. Why should they, when the puppies are sellable and when the show ring prizes confirm that they do nothing wrong?
And yes, the people who buy puppies should be better educated. Of course most first-time buyers of shar-pei puppies can´t spell "amyloidosis". Why should they be expected to, when breeders can´t? Most likely they think that the breed "always was like that" and is OK with its wrinkles and its eyes tacked. Why should they be expected to know better than people who boast that they are KC-affiliated breeders?
It´s time to bring the EC laws for protection of companion anilmals to apply. It would take some determination and time, but it`s possible to do and it would be most interesting to follow.
Anyone for tennis?
Bodil, if the buyers don't care what they buy, why should the sellers?
ReplyDeleteIn my experience the buyers do care very much about dogs, but they often think evident problems will be solved with a little TLC. I have just signed a cheque to pay for euthanasia of a poor little GSD whose owner bought him out of pity and spent nearly a year trying to keep him and his brother alive in spite of their inherited metabolic defects. As she is on a very low income and eligible to use our clinic this also represented a significant drain on charity funds. She did realise these two puppies were very poorly, but simply wouldn't accept there was more involved than a nasty breeder who wasn't feeding her dogs properly.
ReplyDeleteI imagine the person who bought the runt puppy was similar.
This sort of behaviour would be a lot less rewarding for breeders if there was a way in which the purchaser could claim for the cost of veterinary treatment.
Nanook: cause when you sell someone broken "stuff" you're going to have to ante up eventually.
ReplyDeletePeople may not care to research enough when they buy a dog but that does not mean that a seller can sell defected dogs and be aware of it without reprimand. That's how society works, you believe that the sellers have the knowledge and they'll show you what you need, just like when you buy a fridge or a cellphone, you at least expect it to work without you having to pay for constant repairs.
Hi join us on FB group, i'm an italian breeder since 1990 and i founded in 2007 the Traditional chinese shar-pei international club bottom the url of the site of the club, we have also a group on FB with about 1000 members
ReplyDeleteNanook, they will as soon as it becomes evident to them that they can med MADE to care a great deal about what they sell!
ReplyDeleteDijana and Bodil,(un)fortunately, dogs are not objects, they are living beings and every living being can get sick at one point or another. As with "stuff", you do have "good brands" and "bad brands", though. If you buy a "bad brand stuff", you can very well expect to pay for constant repairs, do you not? And your friends are going to remind you over and over, just how stupid you were to buy that brand in the first place. Today, ignorance is no excuse. You can find anything on the internet and if the buyers are too lazy to do their homework, they don't deserve a dog. They don't diserve an animal, period. They should go out and buy a cellphone instead. The good brand, or bad, what do I care, it's not alive anyway.
ReplyDeleteBut part of the point of Jemima's campaign is that pet buyers can't easily find a dog that represents a "good buy" because the way pedigree breeding is organised isn't designed to produce puppies who will be suitable as companions. It's as though your grannie had to get the latest iphone, antenna problems and all, when what she needs is a simple phone that "just works".
ReplyDeleteIf you are interested in Traditional type Shar pei and the history, please visit my kennelsite too.
ReplyDeletehttp://kennellonfumun.kotisivukone.com
Regards, Maxim's owner.
Maxim is absolutely stunning - great to see. Is FSF as bad in the traditional dogs?
ReplyDeleteThere is one group of people The KC could educate instantly - the Dog Show judges. Put the pressure on them. No prizes to exaggerated dogs. As long as dogs with obvious health problems are winning prizes at Dog Shows, the breeding of these dogs will carry on.
ReplyDeleteIt's what's winning in the ring that sets the standard for most breeders.
cambstreasurer, IMO, every breeder is responsible for what he/she breeds, and every buyer is responsible for what he/she buys. If by pedigree breeding you mean breeders in the UK, I can't comment (I'm not from UK), but if you mean all breeders, then I have to disagree.
ReplyDeleteGood breeders may be hard(er) to find, but they're out there.
Jemima, depends on who you ask, I guess. I've heard both-they have no FSF/AA problems//they do have problems. I'm wary of any SP breeder that says they don't have FSF/AA in their lines, traditional or modern, though.
A wonderful article about traditional pei with lots of pictures can be found here: http://fuyuans.ch/ .
ReplyDeleteFSF and Amyloidosis going in lines. Maxim is clear and has participated in FSF study in Upsala University in Sweden.So we really dont know from where these diseases has come in this breed. I hope we have this DNA test in common use soon.
ReplyDeleteMaxims owner
Nanook, I am one of the buyers who bought "a bad brand". I can spell, I am fairly well educated but I didn't do my research ... I was buying a pet not a car or a TV. My dog suffered sharpei fever, but how would I know, its not a visible illness, I relied on the breeder telling me her dogs were healthy. I cared very much for my dog and as I said before I learned a very valuable lesson but I think you make very sweeping statements when you talk about laziness or ignorance, have you never made a mistake or relied on the word of someone else to your detriment? The world would be a terrible place if there was no trust in it.
ReplyDeleteAnne, I'm sorry for your pei. You know what the saddest thing is? People do more research when they buy a car or a TV (or a cell phone), than when they buy an animal... And even when told why NOT to buy a puppy from a puppy mill, they still do it.
ReplyDeleteAnd I am sorry you have lumped me under your "bad buyer" umbrella. What I looked for about Sharpei and what I was told by the breeder regarding her Sharpei was two different things. The internet didn't tell me her dogs were likely to be sick and at 8 weeks old they looked fine to me .... I'm not a vet by the way. According to you I did not deserve my dog but you know what, I hate to imagine her fate if I had not had her.
ReplyDeleteI thought I did a lot of research when I got my german shepherd back in the 1990s. I went to a famous show breeder who was featured in all the breed books. I figured someone that successful HAD to be ethical and have healthy dogs. Sad LOL!
ReplyDeleteI don't know you and haven't lumped you under any umbrella. As for the responsible buyer/responsible breeder thing, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
ReplyDeleteA long and very intresting artickle about the traditional Shar-pei,very educating reading written by a dear friend of mine.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.kynon.gr/en/node/70/#alithiaen
What an interesting site and article here! Interesting comments as well. Good to see this topic getting exposure. I (and a number of others I see have commented here) have been trying to raise awareness on these breed health issues for YEARS.
ReplyDeleteWhile the breed certainly is in worse shape today (IMO) with regards to health & longevity it wasnt without some of these issues early on either. Some of the original imports had entropion, FSF and other breed specific genetic health issues. Yet there is no doubt that the breed's current state of health is (IMO) precarious.
There are dedicated, ethical breeders out there who absolutely do care about the breed and strive to breed healthier Pei but in the climate of silence & denial on the show circuit, the dishonesty and greed/ego motivated practices of many, rampant misinformation being circulated, popular sire syndrome and a variety of other factors in play it is an uphill struggle. How does one research a pedigree when the information sources on the line's health are so unreliable (or made unavailable)?
I will be honest.....one can work diligently to uncover truth as to any potential genetic issues in a line, one can health screen with whatever tests are available, one can carefully select and breed what they BELIEVE to be the healthiest stock but frankly, it's a crapshoot from there. To make it worse there are breeders who use this logic to excuse marginal breeding choices or even blatent breeding of KNOWN producers of Amyloidosis dogs. As I hear time and again "It's in all the lines"...as if that excuses breeding close reletaives of afflicted Pei or even the afflicted pei themselves. Last year I understand that a breeder used frozen semen of a winning show dog that was deceased (from amyloidosis)to produce a litter. Sigh!
In our quest for phenotype that is pleasing to our eyes (not to mention VERY marketable) we have created or exacerbated one hell of alot of health issues. I would (sadly) hardly call us unique in the dogworld either. In the SPORT of conformation dog showing we have glorified breed standards that call for traits that compromise health & longevity and we have almost completely lost the actual DOG in this equation...Or (as a dear friend of mine retorted to a show breeder arguing for the validity of focusing on phenotype) "they are a genetic trainwreck and you can only remark on how lovely the tracks appear?"
FSF/Amyloidosis ARE rampant. We (as yet) do not have confirmation on the pattern of inheritance though past research has indicated autosomal recessive pattern. There is alot of new research that will be published in coming months on FSF, Amyloidosis & Hyaluranan and its HUGE role in multiple breed specific health issues. There is a DNA test (FSF/A) presently being developed (in the validation process presently) and hopefully this info & test will give us tools for better breeding strategies. Hopefully these tools will be USED and not ignored as much health info has been in the past.
In the meantime I think it is great to keep a dialog going on this. I think the show world needs pressure to shift focus to priorities that serve the DOGS and not our egos or pocketbooks first. Thank you so much for posting this blog.
And anyone who sees this and has an FSF or Amyloidosis Pei, please consider submitting them (photo, call name, date of birth (and DOD when applicable)to the Faces of FSF & Amyloidosis awareness & memorial project. Send to: jl@blessingssharpei.com
There is also a page on FB where one can share their FSF/Amyloidosis Pei's pedigree and the Shar Pei forum has tons of info for care and support for Pei owners too.
Lets keep talking, keep working, keep educating the public and hopefully we will eventually shift priorities to health & longevity for a better future for these amazing beings we call Shar Pei.
JL Wortham-Morgan
Blessing's CSP, Creator-Faces of FSF/Amyloidosis Awareness/Memorial project.
Thanks for posting an image of a traditional Shar-pei, I have _never_ seen one. It's rather disgusting that the horribly distorted version is what makes the puppy calendars and is the current "mental model" of the breed for most people.
ReplyDeleteThat traditional dog is gorgeous. I can't help but see the excess skin and other neotenous features in the other dog as grotesque.
Maxim`s owner claims he`s dog to be clear of FSF and Amyloid. How can you tell?
ReplyDeleteYou take certain tests and they are clear for now but it does not mean that your dog is all clear of these diseases. He can get sick after a week.
There is no way to know a dog is clear. Even dogs imported from your Far East traditional dogs have been subject to FSF and Amyloid.
ReplyDeleteSo I'm sorry Maxim's owner... you can't prove your dog is clear.
Is there a typical age(s) by which time these diseases break out? And is Maxim past that age(s)? If he is then what you could say is that his chances of being sick are significantly lowered which is important if there is no genetic test (as there apparently is none for Shar Peis at the moment).
ReplyDeleteThis is the problem in many breeds with late onset disease and using young dogs (especially studs) for breeding. Even without genetic test for most diseases there is the an age when you can say that the chances of this dog getting sick have lowered. Dogs should not be used for breeding before they have passed this age, especially not studs who can sire their first litter even at old age. By waiting until the dog is past the "risk age" breeders could lower the number of diseased dogs.
I can say that Maxim is clear because he's been tested and participated in FSF/Amyloidos research, which develop in Uppsala University,in Sweden. This test is not ready YET in common use,but we hope soon is. Thats why i can say he is health.
ReplyDeleteRegards Maxims owner
This is a new DNA test for FSF/amyloidosis? Had heard there was one in the pipeline. Any idea when it might be available?
ReplyDeleteJemima
Jemima, One of researcher has told me that they start to develop that in the spring. Now they validating that test. This has been waiting so long, almost 20 years.
ReplyDeleteRegards
Maxims owner
What kind of a DNA test - marker od direct?
ReplyDeleteNanook, read here: https://www.broadinstitute.org/scientific-community/science/projects/mammals-models/canine-disease-genetics-news
ReplyDeleteRegards
Maxims owner
You know there is something in between... You can have a "meat mouth" and some wrinkles without having the extreme 'hippo' nose or masses of wrinkles.
ReplyDeleteI had a Shar-Pei who was the "old type" and he did not have any issues with his eyes and did not need his wrinkles cleaned out.
He looked similar to this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kasumisty/5803135267/in/photostream
I have a traditional chinese shar pei and she is the best dog I'v ever had!
ReplyDeleteNancy at MaoBao shar peis is in Georgia, USA, and she has some gorgeous old type sharpeis.
ReplyDeletehttp://nancy.allen.net/
http://nancy.allen.net/Splash2.jpg
Look at what American has done to the German Shepherd dog? So this surprises anyone?
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with what someone above said.
The kennels clubs should refuse these Western shar-pei an insist that breeders breed towards to original look, design and purpose of the dog.
Only then will things change.
If anyone is in Eastern Canada, we have to GORGEOUS Traditional Bone Mouths ready for new homes.
ReplyDeletePlease go to our website to check details
Merlin s Hope.com
Both are healthy. One is a 8-month old baby in excellent health. These tradition shar-pei truly define the qualities of the breed and are entirely, delightfully different from the Westernized version!
I'm from Wales in the UK, i fell in love with the Shar-Pei after seeing a book about them in a local pet store. Before buying a female puppy i thought i had taken all the precautions. I spent weeks researching both the KC (UK) web site, various Shar-Pei owners club web sites, wikipedia and a host of others. My aim was to find the healthiest pup i could find from the healthiest Dam and Sire.
ReplyDeleteIt seems I didn't research quite enough. I wasn't even aware that the traditional Bone mouth existed until tonight when i watched a promgram on the BBC exposing the quite frankly, disgraceful practices of many breeders in the UK of exaggurating characteristics of dogs. After several hours of further, more in depth research, I'm still no closer to finding a breeder of traditional Bone mouth shar-peis in the UK.
My plan was always to breed my Shar-Pei, thankfully, she does not have too much flesh and skin around the eyes and mouth, and does not have an over exaggurated wrinkling of the skin anywhere. Unfortunately, she has Elbow dysplasia in her front right leg (though not in her left suprisingly), and because of this fact, i will NOT be breeding her.
I can't conciously risk passing on this condition to another litter. I forgot to add that she had her eye lids tacked as a 5-6 week old pup along with the rest of her litter by the breeder.
What a shame Ryan that there are not more conscientious people out there. What upsets me is you go to these so called reputable breeders - many who say we breed for health, then why do some of their dogs have eyes that look so abnormal, they look droopy, red and sore? many are overly wrinkled, and are obviously being bred for them - it really upsets me looking and what some people are creating.
ReplyDeleteI have a rescue dog that they told me was Shar-pei and Black Mouth Cur but to be honest after seeing your top photo of a traditional Shar-pei (besides the down turned ears) they could be an exact match. She has put on a few lbs since we got her but this is the exact dog that I have at my house. She had 11 puppies before coming to us and was very thin but wow. I don't think she has anything else mixed with her if you look at the original photo and her you would think they are the same dog. Thanks for you insight into this.
ReplyDeleteThank you for continuing to keep the pressure on breeders of show dogs that are not healthy. I applaud you. I breed whippets and so far, other than deafness and heart problems, we are a fairly healthy breed. If only my fellow breeders would test for deafness, hip dyplasia, heart disease and eye health, I would be optimistic. The show ring has ceased to be a place to find breeding stock, which was the original intent. Human beings messing with nature always fall short.
ReplyDeleteI have never seen an original Shar-pei, and to tell you the truth, I would never buy what passes for a Shar-pei, if I were going to buy a dog, after having seen what a stunning dog they were before they were totally ruined. We've done this to all the breeds. They are so inbred now that buying a pure bred dog practically guarantees massive vet bills. I've spent thousands upon thousands in vet bills on the last three pure bred dogs which were given to me before they were a year old. The first dog we had was mixed breed on both sides of his "family", and he didn't get ill until he was a bit over 15. He was diagnosed with cancer. He was 16 when his time came. The ACD, the Mini Schnauzer, and the Golden Retriever died before there time from diseases that were prone to their breeds. We now have a small mixed breed terrier whose lineage I wouldn't even attempt to guess.
ReplyDeleteI say by pass the pedigree ,, adopt a mutt.