tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post6914432171656502134..comments2024-03-20T17:32:35.238+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: Westminster: the good, the bad and the just plain sillyJemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-38860367027104370462017-10-17T18:02:04.532+01:002017-10-17T18:02:04.532+01:00Deerhound is better of than the german shepherd, b...Deerhound is better of than the german shepherd, but I am beginning to see a trend toward overly-thick coats compared to past dogs.WorkingDogsLivenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-13392987406612886122016-05-25T12:09:17.382+01:002016-05-25T12:09:17.382+01:00You are not alone. I agree with you.You are not alone. I agree with you.anemoneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08080161212524394966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-1404131582752844872013-02-12T13:21:18.890+00:002013-02-12T13:21:18.890+00:00By the way, am I the only one noticing the horror ...By the way, am I the only one noticing the horror that is happening to the Dobermann and Boxer as well? They don't have the same *kind* of sloping back as the GSD, but they are more and more looking like ski slopes with barrel chests.<br /><br />http://www.boxer-puppies-for-sale.com/images/Reverse-Brindle-Boxer-Male.jpg<br />http://cdn.greatdogsite.com/watermark/Boxer-2%20years-dark%20brindle-1185411874.jpg<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_QwoURWeYM<br /><br />http://www.kingofcrystal.se/images/valpplaner4_1_1.jpg<br />http://www.byphilip.com/galleries/Car%20Konstantin%20Dobermann%20Kup%202010/content/bin/images/large/Dobergaarden_Forever_Athos_8322.jpg<br />http://www.dobermann-tejatposterior.com/cayenna/cayenna%20cw%202009.jpg<br /><br />It's disgusting, because it shows the people don't look upon them as dogs anymore, but as works of art that they are trying to caricature as much as possible.Frida Nyberghttp://zanizaila.wix.com/fridanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-42097708740025154932011-03-04T21:46:12.480+00:002011-03-04T21:46:12.480+00:00Certainly the Labrador Retriever as shown from 201...Certainly the Labrador Retriever as shown from 2011 is NOT conformed to the USA standard as written by the Labrador Retriever Club. Distance from foot to elbow is suppose to be one half the height at wither (top of shoulder, where neck comes down). Dog in the photo doesn't come close to that. The loin is suppose to be short and strong: not in this dog. Back is suppose to be LEVEL. Not in this dog. The Labrador is suppose to be balanced, front and rear, with a powerful hindquarter; not this dog. The Labrador is suppose to be shown in working condition; not this dog. The stop between head and muzzle is suppose to be "moderate" and free from fleshy cheeks, and there no "massive, cheeky heads". Certainly not the case here. Rather than being suited to a waterdog, this animal is more akin to a barge. There seems to be far more emphasis placed on the "otter tail", which isn't going to help a dog built like the 2011 model pictured be an agile swimmer. I would bet this dog would be exhausted, and perhaps even collapse after a morning's hunt, or even hike. Very sad.....Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16254571626631335979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-19983795060856002182011-02-28T21:27:51.990+00:002011-02-28T21:27:51.990+00:00Rob, thank you. Heather, you´re quoted on my blog ...Rob, thank you. Heather, you´re quoted on my blog and thank you again for what you said. It´s not in English, so I suppose won´t be possible for you to read, but besides the quote it says that while there is a lot of respect floating around in the dog world, claimed by certain people who are considered very successful in one respect or other, it`s not so often that somebody speaks out of deep and earnest respect for dogs themselves - and you did.<br />Thanks again, you cheered me!Bodil Carlssonhttp://collievaenner.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-10309455687876038372011-02-28T20:53:38.072+00:002011-02-28T20:53:38.072+00:00Shelby, I hope to God you never have to rely on th...Shelby, I hope to God you never have to rely on that crippled "fashion statement" you've bred for to save your sorry ass, because that poor thing can't do it. <br /><br />On the other hand, Heather's dogs -- bred for health, brains and normal conformation -- can. <br /><br />I know which dog I'd rather have, in my home and on my side.Ginahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06269415397411374828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-7608378279067143792011-02-28T03:46:23.584+00:002011-02-28T03:46:23.584+00:00Bodil -- Heather has three ES doing search and res...Bodil -- Heather has three ES doing search and rescue work, one operational (Pip), another in training (Cole), and a third whose status I'm unsure of (Rosie).<br /><br />Viatecio -- English Shepherds are registered with the UKC, so it's not entirely accurate to say they're not registered with any kennel club. There of course is also the English Shepherd Club's registry, the defunct Southeastern Kennel Club, and one or two others from memory.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18015219452269186971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-60554026620486460452011-02-27T23:02:14.931+00:002011-02-27T23:02:14.931+00:00Search and rescue? Yes, I am.Search and rescue? Yes, I am.Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-991996842779928232011-02-26T17:50:36.739+00:002011-02-26T17:50:36.739+00:00Heather, are you doing rescue work with your Engli...Heather, are you doing rescue work with your English shepherds?Bodil Carlssonhttp://collievaenner.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-46512800865860285412011-02-26T10:46:03.477+00:002011-02-26T10:46:03.477+00:00Two things:
1) I'm not Canadian. Not that th...Two things:<br /><br />1) I'm not Canadian. Not that there's anything wrong with that. There are others who spell the surname slightly differently who are. But sure, whatever, let 'er rip.<br /><br />2) I have owned working German shepherd dogs for nearly 20 years. (Prior to my first GSD I had field-type golden retrievers.) The breed that Viatecio references as "mine" is the English shepherd, an American breed (natch!) of farm collie. I have owned ES for eleven years and am deeply involved in both breed conservation and our national rescue organization.<br /><br />I wish all ES litters were planned as carefully as Via describes; alas, no. But our gene pool is open via a grading-in process, and has escaped the twin horrors of popular sire syndrome and selection for circle-walking. The incorporated purpose of our breed club is the <i>conservation</i> of the breed as an agricultural resource.<br /><br />I agree that there are populations of dogs which have improved. Perhaps I should use scare quotes and make it "improved." Comes to mind: the Alaska husky, if you are looking for a fast racing sled dog (but maybe notsomuch if you need a dog for a polar expedition or a daily hunting excursion). Several populations of dogs used for police work, if the metric you apply is suitability for police work. (And I think it is reasonable to do so.)<br /><br />I don't consider "improvement" to be merely "they aren't as godawful exaggerated in X characteristic or as prone to Y disease" as they were ten years ago. That's called bailing while you're still taking on water. Necessary, perhaps, but you don't highlight it on your CV as befitting Magellan.Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-24838172664212212092011-02-26T00:11:08.173+00:002011-02-26T00:11:08.173+00:00Dorothea Penizek said...
"Viatecio wrote...<i>Dorothea Penizek said...<br /><br /> "Viatecio wrote:<br /> Some dogs HAVE changed for the better":<br /><br /> Please name one!</i><br /><br />Notice I said dogs, not breeds.<br /><br />The effect of a closed gene pool has had its effect son nearly every breed, even lines with which some breeders strive to find appropriate mates that are not related within a reasonable number of generations, despite the bottleneck that may exist way back in the line when the breed was first created.<br /><br />Some breeders are doing their part to ensure healthy dogs, and I may harbor intense dislike for certain registries, but I do admire that the people who bother to heath test their registered dogs (NOT just the requisite "he has good hips, yay") have results out on public display for those who know how to search for them.<br /><br />Not all improvements involve *registered* purebreds.<br /><br />Many police dogs and bitesort dogs are mixed, and Malinois/GSD mixes are not uncommon.<br /><br />If you knew anything about Heather, you would know that her breed isn't registered with any kennel club. The few litters that are born each year are, aside from the puppy millers who capitalize upon the breed (one of which was raided and heavily documented), are planned for the benefit of the breed rather than that perfect stop or soft eye.<br /><br />Even Jan touched on some points about improvement, although I still disagree with the exaggerated phenotype of her breed, I cannot argue with appropriate health testing (to which extent, though, is questionable...what constitutes "fully" and how can one account for high cancer rates in the breed?) and good behavior.<br /><br />So, some examples. Maybe not as many as I'd like to pull out of my hat right now, but it's some obvious ones.<br /><br />Or, maybe I'll just be called out as someone who doesn't show or breed, or have any contact with the show ring or show dogs, and therefore can't form any valid opinion. Which is fine, too, since I do suffer from chronic foot-in-mouth disease more commonly than I care to admit. I'm used to it.Viateciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08523551407472141202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-52631915001737614232011-02-25T23:46:23.525+00:002011-02-25T23:46:23.525+00:00Jan, I believe you when you say temperament has im...Jan, I believe you when you say temperament has improved in Bull Terriers. I've witnessed it myself. And, yes, there is a greater emphasisam on health and I am told that BT breeders were very helpful in the development of the new PLL test.<br /><br />But in terms of general testing, OFA statistics show that only 50 BTs in the USA have been BAER tested and only a 100 or so have been hip scored or heart-tested - ever).<br /><br />Here in the UK, meanwhile, only 12 BTs have ever been hip scored and none at all last year. <br /><br />And of course, you have a very small gene pool.Didn't Jerry Bell find that the average COI was around 20 per cent? I remember too that he concluded that that was OK - but there are very many geneticists who would disagree. It never seems to occur to breeders that the high COIs might be linked to the reports of immune-mediated disorders in the breed.<br /><br />Re longevity, I'm afraid you are wrong. It is true that fewer dogs die in their youth of infectious diseases, thanks to vaccination, but average longevity has not increased. <br /><br />It needs updating, but have a look at Kelly Cassidy's dog longevity website: http://users.pullman.com/lostriver/longhome.htmJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-35474696404612492662011-02-25T19:39:32.046+00:002011-02-25T19:39:32.046+00:00a picture is obviously worth a thousand words on t...a picture is obviously worth a thousand words on this blog..sadly..most of them negative. <br />Julia I could not have said it better. My own breed ( Bull Terriers) has improved greatly over the years. in spite of what this blog has to say..especially in the area of the most critical element .. temperament.. health wise we are much better off as well. I just returned from jolly old England where I attended our annual trophy event. All of the dogs were very well behaved. A huge improvement in temperament. The dogs are fit and gorgeous and every one was an excellent example of the breed. If you asked about a stud dog the first thing most people said is "fully health tested".<br />Julia you best not mention longevity on this blog as most here think dogs "of old' lived forever while dogs today drop like flies due to the callousness of pure bred dog breeders and their "quest for perfection". No "dog of old" had.. hip dysplasia.. distemper, heart problems, kidney failure or any other of the myriad of diseases that we now either have a cure for.. testing for or at the very least knowledge of what to look for. Why do we have many of these cures, tests and improvements.. because of pure bred dog breeders.. and dare I say it.. The AKC and Kennel Club ( oh wait.. I think that is lightning striking my home)<br />Instead we have people here who can look at a photo to declare.. UNFIT.. HORRIBLE.. CANNOT SEE..SHAVED ( oh the horror of it all) OBVIOUSLY DYSPLASTIC( even when they have passed examination)and more.. all from looking a picture..all from looking a picture of the dog ONLY from the side in most cases..<br />Maybe they should market crystal balls on this blog as well as print "examples" of "right and wrong"<br />Dorothea.. are you saying the several litters you breed each year are less healthy and sound than those of the past?<br />And as Heather says.. karma is a bitch..even on this blog<br />Jan Dykema<br />Bestuvall Bull Terriers<br />Best Breed On A Leadbestuvallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03034419139639335716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-23021838245035637432011-02-25T14:58:37.191+00:002011-02-25T14:58:37.191+00:00Viatecio wrote:
Some dogs HAVE changed for the bet...Viatecio wrote:<br />Some dogs HAVE changed for the better: <br /><br />Please name one!<br /><br />I have a lot of art books and old prints as well as old books and for the life of me I cannot find one single breed that has changed for the better in the past 150 years! <br /><br /><br />If all you have to go on are some old photographs how can you possibly determine that a breed has not changed for the better?<br />It's like looking at photographs of Edwardian children at school and thinking life was so much better then because the children look well behaved and much smarter than today's children - without taking into account how many died very young through illness/disease etc. <br />I love nostalgia but personally I believe that dogs, in general have improved over the last centuary. Temprement, health and longevity have all shown an improvement. This is due in part to better veterinary care but also because we have much higher expectations from a dog these days than ever before and are making a greater effort to produce an animal that fits these expectations. At the very top of the exhibition world there are a few animals of certain breeds which have become excessivly exaggerated in their appearence. This is a great pity, but the majority of purebred dogs in pet homes do not display such extreem characteristics and live fit and healthy lives. To judge a breed by the appearence of a select few animals at a show is like assuming a population are all like the supermodels you see on a cat walk!Julianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-3854493829780849802011-02-25T11:39:11.800+00:002011-02-25T11:39:11.800+00:00Viatecio wrote:
Some dogs HAVE changed for the bet...Viatecio wrote:<br />Some dogs HAVE changed for the better: <br /><br />Please name one!<br /><br />I have a lot of art books and old prints as well as old books and for the life of me I cannot find one single breed that has changed for the better in the past 150 years!Dorothea Penizekhttp://www.parson-russell-terriers.atnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-12995878329510669282011-02-25T09:25:22.459+00:002011-02-25T09:25:22.459+00:00Heather, you are certainly not anonymous. :-) Than...Heather, you are certainly not anonymous. :-) Thank you! There must be literally many thousands of us thinking what you posted. <br /><br />Would it be all right with you if I copied that post on my own blog? Recently, after asking the GSD show breeders here exactly what anatomical proportions they have worked so hard to change in order to arrive at the - well - dog that they pride themselves on now, I was roundly told off by a GSD breed club official in the usual terms - manipuilative, ignorant, etc etc.<br /><br />It wouldn´t be half bad to forward to the man a greeting from a Canadaian working rescue dog woman! :-)Bodil Carlssonhttp://collievaenner.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-8775386251603980362011-02-25T00:12:10.950+00:002011-02-25T00:12:10.950+00:00Why is it that people who are trying to be sarcast...Why is it that people who are trying to be sarcastic always post under Anonymous? Lack of courage to defend you views?Dorothea Penizekhttp://www.claremorris-parson-russells.atnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-41687004888071881762011-02-24T18:26:35.856+00:002011-02-24T18:26:35.856+00:00I love, love, love when people who own non-working...I love, love, love when people who own non-working dogs, who have never worked a dog of any breed, who regard dog work as some sort of curious antiquity, get all hackly when they are called on the carpet for the pain and dysfunction they have whimsically imposed on the objects of their fancy hobby.<br /><br /><i>Who are you to say what the breed should look like today. Times change. Electronics,hairstyles, technology, and clothes have all changed so what's wrong with dog breeds?</i><br /><br />I'm not Jemima, but I can tell you who <i>I</i> am.<br /><br />I'm the one who is going to pull your sorry ass out of the rubble of your house after the earthquake.<br /><br />I'm the one who is running my flashing lights right behind the police cruiser at midnight when your toddler is missing from the campground.<br /><br />I'm the one who needs a functioning canine partner to do her job.<br /><br /><br /><i>How <b>dare</b> you</i> presume to relegate <i>any</i> dog, much less whole breeds, the work-product of generations of purposeful selection for function by breeders whose kennel floors you are not fit to scrub, to the status of fashion item -- as if an animal's body is no different from this year's hemline, as if his glorious mind is as expendable as an outdated iPod.<br /><br />If you believe in any deity, you had better drop down and ask for forgiveness for what you have done to these animals, for your unfathomable arrogance, and you had better pray hard that you never need the help of a healthy, intelligent, functioning working dog.<br /><br />Because karma, she's a bitch, baby.Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-43506545925146863502011-02-24T06:09:57.344+00:002011-02-24T06:09:57.344+00:00He has less rear-angulation, too,
says the author...He has less rear-angulation, too,<br /><br />says the author of the blog about the "old fashioned Deerhound"<br /><br /> really???.. funny thing.. that is not true.. unless you count coat as angulation so the old fashioned dog has a better rear IN THIS PHOTO.. but not in truth as I have seen this gorgeous dog many times in the flesh.... BUT the shoulder and front in your "old fashioned" are much less proper for the breed.. very "terrier like" and the shoulder is extremely upright not to mention out at the elbow.. not desirable in a hunting dog of this size..nor ( dare I say) up to the standard written in the 19th century and only modified once or twice..<br />Even though it is always interesting to see "photo comparisons".. they really don;t mean much do they in the hands of someone who wants to prove a point do they? My guess is you have never laid hands on this dog..seen it from all angles.. nor examined its bite.. or any other part of it..you may have seen it move once or twice on TV.. but I doubt it..<br />"Judge ye not less ye be judged"..but no matter, you always have an arsenal of stones to cast..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-72632323372089818722011-02-22T12:25:19.237+00:002011-02-22T12:25:19.237+00:00Shelby - I have not the experience of the anonymou...Shelby - I have not the experience of the anonymous show handler above, so maybe I'm not qualified to speak on the level that s/he does.<br /><br />However, with all due respect to the effort that you have put into your dog, from breeding and raising to getting it into the show ring, your comment that "times change" is very inappropriate towards the dog world in this matter. I respect that things DO change, and sometimes change for the better, but unfortunately this is not the case with your breed. Even people who have no experience with dogs or breeding look at these GSDs and wrinkle their noses...and I'm not just saying this. I've seen it. And I have no idea how anyone in the GSD world can be so blind to the sheer unsoundness in their dogs, but then again, the emperor couldn't see past his lack of clothes.<br /><br />Which is a good segue into a <a href="http://www.thedogplace.org/Breeder/Genetics/Emperors-New-Clothes_Klumb.asp" rel="nofollow">very well-written article</a> on the issue by someone who has a bit more qualification than I.<br /><br />I agree that times do change and so does taste, technology, hairstyles, etc etc. Some change for the better, some for the worse, and history (especially in the fashion world) has an odd habit of repeating itself. Some dogs HAVE changed for the better: their breeders are aware of issues and are trying to breed away from them, whether they are genetic issues or those caused by exaggerated form. Sadly, the show-ring GSD has not yet been privy to this opportunity, and your fellow breeders insist on creating and maintaining a dog that, by looks alone, most people who actually know a thing or two about dogs wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole. Sure, you have the people who are enamored with the regal stance, who will do anything to buy a puppy out of a champion, and that's their choice...I disagree with them, but I don't want to condemn them.<br /><br />But those who know differently and can see the issue as plain as day will continue to speak up. I know we all love dogs here, and that's why we do so...but "loving" something is also about being mature enough to admit faults as well as winning points. (I'm not just talking about the "Is this breed right for you?" discussion bullets, and you know that...or so I hope.)<br /><br />And the best thing people who "love" the GSD can do is admit that one of their greatest winning points over the years has been won at the greatest cost: the dog itself, and in turn, the entire breed as most average people know it.Viateciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08523551407472141202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-91370370147797095302011-02-22T00:12:22.777+00:002011-02-22T00:12:22.777+00:00Thanks for the links, Louise - all good-looking, u...Thanks for the links, Louise - all good-looking, unexaggerated dogs!Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-78339351528024413832011-02-21T22:17:43.661+00:002011-02-21T22:17:43.661+00:00While I disagree a lot of the time with Jemima Har...While I disagree a lot of the time with Jemima Harrison, I have to agree wholeheartedly with her on the subject of the German Shepherds. I watched the breed judging video before this post was out and couldn't see a dog there that would not be regarded as 'unsound' in any other breed. It was almost too painful to watch. When gaiting the hocks of the dogs seemed to almost knock together and even when unstacked they were standing slouched. Whether the extreem appearence of the modern show GSD is due in the main to ring training or breeding for excessive hind angulation, it has done the breed no favors. Can these dogs even walk when they reach veteran years? No animal on the planet has a confirmation which certain elements of the GSD world seem to believe gives their breed enhanced endurance. Certainly most wild canids are masters of endurance so one would assume if this shape was helpful it would have evolved in the wild. Blatently it has not.<br />And I am a handler of show dogs so not simply critisising a world of which I have no knowledge.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-78772602923825849192011-02-21T20:43:20.235+00:002011-02-21T20:43:20.235+00:00I own the german shepherd you were talking about. ...I own the german shepherd you were talking about. Who are you to say what the breed should look like today. Times change. Electronics,hairstyles, technology, and clothes have all changed so what's wrong with dog breeds? So are you saying that people should by from puppy mills and pet stores? You obviously are screwed up in the brain if you think that people are going to have healthy animals from those places. Sorry you can't change modern day and if you don't like it then maybe you should get another hobby.shelby robertsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-58196123447647570562011-02-21T12:35:04.203+00:002011-02-21T12:35:04.203+00:00I would guess the Dachshund? The description certa...I would guess the Dachshund? The description certainly fits...they've gone from generic short-legged-ness to valgus beyond belief.<br /><br />Even the corgis I see aren't that bad, and that breed tends to be another common example of selective achondroplasia.Viateciohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08523551407472141202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-18437446730009522472011-02-21T10:53:51.160+00:002011-02-21T10:53:51.160+00:00What breed?What breed?Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.com