tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post3825308234098704963..comments2024-03-20T17:32:35.238+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: Does greater inbreeding always mean poorer health?Jemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-51826928565075874652011-10-05T00:42:15.550+01:002011-10-05T00:42:15.550+01:00Not surprising. Breeders have known for decades t...Not surprising. Breeders have known for decades that rigid selective breeding can eliminate/avoid health problems. I believe you negatively refer to that as eugenics, LOL.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-66895857423913709382011-09-07T22:54:48.470+01:002011-09-07T22:54:48.470+01:00Submitted too soon.
No, I am not suggesting a cor...Submitted too soon.<br /><br />No, I am not suggesting a correlation between open registry and health of the dog. I am just pointing out the limitations of the study. Unless one maps the entire pedigree straight from the foundation, one cannot exactly say it is a closed registry. Even importing from another kennel 15 generations ago would make all the difference despite the current COI.Davehttp://prickeared.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-90628588496774661042011-09-07T22:50:23.749+01:002011-09-07T22:50:23.749+01:00@Mija Jansson
So, in the papers, there's no R...@Mija Jansson<br /><br />So, in the papers, there's no RKF or FKC in the pedigrees? It's all SKK straight from the foundation?Davehttp://prickeared.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-44395251732529227642011-09-07T20:06:05.137+01:002011-09-07T20:06:05.137+01:00Is it possible that there has been imports from Fi...Is it possible that there has been imports from Finland to Sweden of the recently registered Norrbottenspitzes? So the open studbook in Finland would have had an impact on the breed in Sweden also.<br /><br />Open studbook in Finland (Finnish KC) means that there are national (Finnish) rules that facilitate registering dogs outside the studbook to Finnish KC special registry. These are in addition to the FCI rule about the right to apply registration of unregistered dog. Breed that have such rules in Finland i.e are considered to have an open studbook include (but are not necessarily limited to) the aforementioned Norrbottenspitz, Lapponian Herder and Jack Russell Terrier (this JRT mean the FCI breed number 345).Maija Vilppohttp://www.roverrandom.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-75765292823294390572011-09-06T16:00:27.188+01:002011-09-06T16:00:27.188+01:00Thank you, all, for showing interest in my work!
...Thank you, all, for showing interest in my work!<br /><br />@Heather - I am not a vet-student so I have not looked at physical extremes even though it would be very interesting, of course. Pedigree analyzis and molecular studies answer different questions, what I'm first of all interested in are the increase in inbreeding over time. <br /><br />@Dave - Have you found any proofs of correlation between open studbook and health of the dogs? I have only used data from the Swedish kennel club and they do NOT have an open studbook for Norrbottenspitz as the Finnish kennel club has. <br /><br />There is no scientific definition of open studbook so it is a bit hard to discuss but if it is defined like in Sweden (cross breeding between breeds occur) there is only one of "my" breeds that have an open studbook in Sweden - Småland hound. <br /><br />The Småland hound is in a so called "rasvård" project. ("Rasvård" may include genetic health programs for both physical and mental health and overall health and breeding programs at the population level. Combinations of these actions may occur in individual breeds.)<br /><br />/Mija JanssonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-31712593403976208832011-09-05T11:12:37.569+01:002011-09-05T11:12:37.569+01:00No expert on genetics, but this strikes me:
1) you...No expert on genetics, but this strikes me:<br />1) you must first sort out breeds which are structurally unhealthy, i e have been bred for features which are direct results of deleterious genes. Cranial dysplasia, referred to as "brachy", for instance. If such a breed was as genetically diverse in all other gene pairs as nature will allow, the dogs would still have breathing problems and so be "unhealthy". <br />2)If you look at certain other breeds, which were made into formalized breeds comparatively recently, AND before that had a long history of selection for usefulness under harsh conditions - let´s imagine a Lapponian reindeer herder and general purpose hunter, fed on scraps, expected to run for hours beside the sledges in freezing temperatures, all sickly puppies culled quickly and any sickly adult too because no demand for dogs that couldn´t contribute. <br />Now, if you decided to start a formal breed from a fairly small group of individuals picked randomly from such a population of dogs, and if you had not had such a very large number of dog generations because the breed was a relatively new one - would it be a surprise that as yet you had healthy individuals?<br />Particularly if there was, or had been until recently, an open studbook to help...<br />Will look out, though, for more news from this study project.Bodil Carlssonhttp://collievaenner.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-78679771696481090242011-09-03T12:31:22.928+01:002011-09-03T12:31:22.928+01:00Several of the breeds listed have an open studbook...Several of the breeds listed have an open studbook (ie. Norrbottenspitz).<br /><br />Something that isn't mentioned. That alone would have a huge effect on the health of the dogs.Davehttp://prickeared.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-51643590412570705792011-09-02T16:46:58.431+01:002011-09-02T16:46:58.431+01:00Great blog. Nice to see more on population genetic...Great blog. Nice to see more on population genetics. Another interesting article that covers some of the dynamics of population genetic diversity in purebred is here.....<br /><br />http://wsgenetics.com/popular_sire_syndrome.htmlJL Wortham-Morganhttp://blessingssharpei.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-53081844368712195572011-09-02T08:11:05.916+01:002011-09-02T08:11:05.916+01:00Could selective sweep for fixed traits such as bra...Could selective sweep for fixed traits such as brachycephalia (for example) increase the levels of homozygosity in the "unhealthy" breeds?Kate Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12984661154425549615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-13839656320552263572011-09-02T07:54:04.820+01:002011-09-02T07:54:04.820+01:00The results of the research dont surprise me. Some...The results of the research dont surprise me. Some breeds are just healthier than other breeds. Partly its a matter of luck and chance with how many "bad" genes the founder dogs in the breed carried. Some of the health problems, as Caty said,are more to do with extreme construction <br />Some of it due to the number of generations of inbreeding until you get back to the founder dogs eg the wolfhound has far more generations of "pure" breeding" than the Finnish Lapphund.<br />I think one would find more correlation between inbreeding and health problems by comparing dogs in a single breed, rather than by comparing breeds. And even within a single breed, one will find some dogs with high COIs who have surprisingly few problems, and some dogs with lower COIs who have health problems. But on average , within a breed, the number of health problems will be worse with higher COIsdalriachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-28756132324413083002011-09-02T03:30:07.037+01:002011-09-02T03:30:07.037+01:00This study does not strike me as particularly comp...This study does not strike me as particularly comparing like with like. Kinda dents my confidence in the results. What Heather said, basically.Éadaoinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-59063785645383638752011-09-01T22:16:44.441+01:002011-09-01T22:16:44.441+01:00It's probably a combination of both physical s...It's probably a combination of both physical structure extremes and homozygosity. Obviously breeds like the bulldog are going to have a lot of problems that aren't genetic but are as a result of selection of structure- short nose, protruding eyes, hip problems due to body structure.<br /><br />Less extreme breeds can have a lot of issues too, though- Labrador retrievers, poodles etc that can't be attributed to extreme features.<br /><br />Dogo Argentinos aren't exaggerated, are they?<br /><br />CatyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-24640601868319100602011-09-01T17:41:40.052+01:002011-09-01T17:41:40.052+01:00What strikes me about these two lists is that one ...What strikes me about these two lists is that one of them is composed of dogs with very exaggerated physical traits, and one is composed of dogs with pretty moderate conformation, lack of extremes.<br /><br />Is this evidence that selection for physical extremes is more harmful than homozygosity?<br /><br />As for the issue of whether or not pedigree records reflect the actual level of inbreeding, can't studies of MHC homozygosity answer that? Obviously more expensive and intrusive than just pedigree analysis, but a logical next step.Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-77151835842136637052011-09-01T17:34:44.121+01:002011-09-01T17:34:44.121+01:00Fascinating! Nothing is ever black and white is it...Fascinating! Nothing is ever black and white is it? <br />Vicky PAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com