tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post359075016717834995..comments2024-03-20T17:32:35.238+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: No more protests - official SM scheme starts Jan 2012Jemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-85757157204030707142011-12-29T04:34:02.052+00:002011-12-29T04:34:02.052+00:00PEOPLE, CALM YOUR STUFF! first off, I am a avid do...PEOPLE, CALM YOUR STUFF! first off, I am a avid dog & cat lover. I am against animal abuse of any kind, Pure breeding a dog or cat is NOT cruel and unusual punishment. I believe it's sad and awful that people are inbreeding these outstanding breeds, which I believe that it should not ever happen, that is most likely destroying the breeds and increasing their health problems. For the activists that are relating this to racism, I feel their minds are full of PULP! there is thousands of beautiful purebred puppies and grown purebred animals that are in rescue shelters, and that were rescued from puppy mills! I believe such beautiful dogs need a home and TLC, as I say any rescue dog needs a home, no dog should be treated any different weather if there purebred or a mixed breed, they are equally perfect in my eyes. I am also a avid pug lover, and would love to adopt a pug puppy or rescue a pug, or even pugs. I hope there is a way to fix all the health problems with all of these dogs. Purebred dogs are very important in my life because they were bred for a purpose, either performing a certain task or being a companion family dog. Several generations of our families and ancestors have had purebred dogs or cats in their lifetime, never let the purebred animals go extant. Don't hate purebred dogs or cats, love them just the same as any mix breed animals. If I want a purebred dog then I'll go to a breeder and adopt one there or rescue one, if I want a mutt, then I want a mutt. It's my choice and no one else's. This stupid documentary, has no right or wrong. It breaks my heart to see all of these dogs suffer, and I don't like how this documentary is pointing fingers and how it is playing the blame game, enough already!. Like I said before, breeders should never incest their dogs together, this is what most likely caused all these health problems in these dogs, inbreeding is not honest pure-breeding, that should be the moral of this documentary. NOTE: this documentary takes place in England, not the United States of America! and not to mention that this documentary was made in 2008 almost 4 years ago, I know a ton of people who have had a purebred dog for a LONG time, and they are all living very healthy happy spoiled lives! SO I don't understand why people are storming up a fuss now, since this documentary came out a while ago!.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-30801669153258001172011-09-30T17:11:03.984+01:002011-09-30T17:11:03.984+01:00Anonymous 17:22 said:
‘I would think "Fitter...Anonymous 17:22 said:<br /><br />‘I would think "Fitter Families" would fit right in here.. they were judged not for their beauty but for their all over health and strength. Fit for Function?’<br /> <br />I’m not sure I understand your point. Are you arguing that applying eugenics to humans is a good thing after all? You do not seem to deny the documented connection of the Nazis with the eugenicists, who also bred animals, but you do seem to be upset about the comparison of breeders to Nazis through their adherence to eugenic principles. You then yourself make the connection between dog breeding and eugenics. <br /><br />Making your opposition’s argument for them is certainly an interesting and novel approach to making your point, but not one I would recommend if you are interested in winning the argument. But then the facts do make your position untenable.<br /><br />‘also the Eugenics movement recommend sterilization of all person not "fit"..same with the animal rights groups.. they demand mandatory castration of all pets under the guise of "pet overpopulation" which has been proven to be untrue’<br /> <br />I believe ‘pet quality’ (and how do you define this if not as ‘not up to standard – i.e. ‘substandard’) dogs are sold on non-breeding contracts that also usually require sterilization. Even if it is not required that these dogs be sterilized just to make sure that they are not bred from, the very fact that they are legally not to be bred from relates to eugenicist theory. Again, your point is…?<br /> <br />To digress for a moment to address the red herring of the ‘pet overpopulation is a myth’ bit, speaking as someone who devoted seven years as a volunteer to a high volume no-kill animal rescue, I have to say that while I think Mr Winograd makes some fair points and applaud him for any reduction in the slaughter of healthy animals, overall I find his position and arguments far from proven, attractive though they may be to breeders. <br /> <br />‘again you compare the deaths of millions of humans to the breeding of a few dogs. Taking the breeding of a few dogs and comparing that to eugenics for the world population is not a comparison. Dogs are not humans.’<br /> <br />I pointed out that the Nazis and breeders of ‘purebred’ animals share a common set of values and apply them, albeit on different populations. I provided documentation to support the point. If you are not comfortable with the relationship, I repeat, you need to have a good, long think about your values. If you are comfortable with applying these principles, may I suggest that you substitute the word ‘Jew’ or ‘Gypsy’ for ‘dogs’. Guess where you wind up. The fact that dog breeders use exactly the same language as the Nazis speaks for itself and should make people very uncomfortable.Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-32246233085467745822011-09-29T17:22:49.296+01:002011-09-29T17:22:49.296+01:00I would think "Fitter Families" would fi...I would think "Fitter Families" would fit right in here.. they were judged not for their beauty but for their all over health and strength. Fit for Function?<br />also the Eugenics movement recommend sterilization of all person not "fit"..same with the animal rights groups.. they demand mandatory castration of all pets under the guise of "pet overpopulation" which has been proven to be untrue.<br />again you compare the deaths of millions of humans to the breeding of a few dogs. Taking the breeding of a few dogs and comparing that to eugenics for the world population is not a comparison. Dogs are not humans..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-61977713024877053792011-09-29T14:57:45.485+01:002011-09-29T14:57:45.485+01:00Anon 01:29 said:
‘The Nazis were one of the firs...Anon 01:29 said:<br /> <br />‘The Nazis were one of the first "animal rights" groups. They believed some animals...particularly dogs and horses were much more deserving of protection and care than many humans that they killed with impunity. The elevation of animals to a higher standard than humans is a theme of the Nazi regime’<br /> <br />You are cherry picking your facts. Read the whole story:<br /> <br />‘What is a ''Jewish dog''? Konrad Lorenz and the cult of wildness.’ By Boria Sax<br /> <br />Page 14, which cites Lorenz himself, merits the attention of those who deny the relationship between dog breeding and Nazism.<br />http://www.animalsandsociety.org/assets/library/325_s512.pdf<br /> <br />‘The idea that they used humans to create a master race (or tried to) has nothing to do with dogs and animals.. nor breed standards and the comparison of a master human race is not a comparison to breeding dogs.’<br /> <br />Whether you like it or not, dog breeders do adhere to the same eugenicist principles that the Nazis took to the ultimate conclusion. The link is well-documented and contrary to what you would like to believe, what the Nazis did had everything to do with breed standards, purity and pedigrees. See the above article as well as the following which may interest you (or may not, if you are closed-minded):<br /> <br />‘’‘Fitter Families for Future Firesides”’: Popular Eugenics and the Construction of a Rural Family Ideal in the United States.’<br />By Laura L. Lovett<br /> <br />Read pages 80-81if you don’t want to read the whole article.<br />http://www.tc.umn.edu/~stou0046/fitter%20families.pdf<br /> <br /> <br />‘Breeding Racism: The Imperial Battlefields of the “German” Shepherd Dog.’<br />Aaron Skabelund <br />The introduction is the most relevant part to the issue you raise.<br />http://www.animalsandsociety.org/assets/library/779_s4.pdf<br /> <br />This one is a book; see if your local library can get it for you:<br /> <br />Animal Breeding, Welfare and Society<br />Jacky Turner<br /> <br />There’s more out there but I think the above selection make the point.<br /> <br />‘To make that comparison is to denigrate the deaths of millions of HUMANS.’<br /> <br />Actually, it is those who refuse to acknowledge the facts and the lessons we should learn from them that denigrate the deaths of millions of humans: Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals, disabled… all those who were ‘impure’ or ‘imperfect’ according to the artificial constructs of other humans. <br /> <br />Sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting, ‘It isn’t true!’ just because you don’t like the fact that dog breeders put into practice the same principles as the Nazis did will not change the truth. It's called being in denial. If something is true and you don’t like the implications about your beliefs, then you need to have a good, long think.Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-45830372229618876102011-09-28T01:29:53.505+01:002011-09-28T01:29:53.505+01:00The Nazis were one of the first "animal right...The Nazis were one of the first "animal rights" groups. They believed some animals...particularly dogs and horses were much more deserving of protection and care than many humans that they killed with impunity. The elevation of animals to a higher standard than humans is a theme of the Nazi regime. The idea that they used humans to create a master race ( or tried to) has nothing to do with dogs and animals.. nor breed standards and the comparison of a master human race is not a comparison to breeding dogs.. To make that comparison is to denigrate the deaths of millions of HUMANS..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-76499049884571974662011-09-25T23:44:59.630+01:002011-09-25T23:44:59.630+01:00Anonymous wrote: "and you Rod must be Jemimas...Anonymous wrote: "and you Rod must be Jemimas Dad.. or favorite uncle..if you do watch the drivel again.. make sure to see the part about the Nazis and the Kennel Club.. such a lovely piece of journalism.. such a fair depiction of all breeders and people who show dogs.. even the Jewish ones." --- Anon, the purebred dog world has been mimicking Heinrich Himmler since even before he started his master race experiments in the 1930s. He even ran a 'kennel' of 'Aryan' human breeding stock, which produced children. Himmler's master race is what purebred breed standards are all about. -- Rod Russell, Orlando, Florida USAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-4787741691046151962011-09-25T18:39:48.510+01:002011-09-25T18:39:48.510+01:00Remember the saying " you are either part of ...Remember the saying " you are either part of the solution or you are part of the problem"<br />Some remain and will always be part of the problem, others will be forever remembered as part of the solution <br />And we all know which is which !jannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-18087677301930384942011-09-25T14:42:11.205+01:002011-09-25T14:42:11.205+01:00I seldom have reason to give any praise to the Ken...I seldom have reason to give any praise to the Kennel Club but they do deserve credit for going ahead with the MRI Scheme, despite the opposition of some influential club breeders. <br /><br />It is great when the welfare of the dogs is put first.<br /><br /> dalriach said... <br />"I see the Cavalier Health Liaison Committee has a link on their website to a Dutch website carrying out a health survey on Cavaliers<br />http://www.cavalierpopulation.com/<br />There ia page on this Dutch website with a summary of health problems in the breed. Which says that Cavaliers have no more health problems than other breeds, and the incidence of SM is extremely low. What planet do they live on?"<br /><br />A planet where a cavalier club health representative can seize centre stage at a KC/cavalier breeders meeting to lecture us on his successful sheep breeding programme. <br /><br />For a surreal moment I thought we may be listening to the creation of a new hybrid........Cavalambs.<br /><br />It is a telling fact that Jemima's blog above gives more health information links than the cavalier health liaison committee website.<br /> <br />The only link on that ironically named cavalierhealth site seems to be to this unscientific dutch website that is full of mistakes, mis-representations and lies.<br />They cannot even describe the Chiari-like Malformation correctly. <br /><br />I was intrigued to see that there was an alternative EBV project being set up and the two UK breeders collecting UK data were cavalier club health representatives.( see the Participate Section ) <br />I do wonder if this is appropriate considering one of them is the cavalier clubs' health liaison representative with the KC?<br /><br />I would imagine there has to be questions about their commitment to promoting the official KC/AHT EBV Scheme among their breed club membership.Margaret Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-5694137658018717152011-09-25T09:20:37.590+01:002011-09-25T09:20:37.590+01:00Is the vindication of PDE and Clare Rusbridge'...Is the vindication of PDE and Clare Rusbridge's peerless research and Carol and Margaret's indefatigable campaigning really anything to celebrate? This is certainly not a champagne moment at all.<br /><br />Surely we had all hoped that all this time they were all wrong? Because the consequences of them being right means only one compelling thing - too many dogs are suffering needlessly.<br /><br />It's great that new tests are developed, and science becomes a more effective tool to both diagnose and manage these dreadful conditions. But all this is doing is subjecting breeders to more costly and complex testing protocols. And the dogs to prolonged suffering.<br /><br />The evidence tells us that it is time to start thinking the unthinkable and start all over again with many breeds. Step back and take a long look at where we are with pedigree dogs. <br /><br />More testing to deal with the symptoms, has its place for the dogs that are already here with us. But for future generations we must get to the root cause.<br /><br />PhilippaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-63587256591697588052011-09-25T04:37:19.738+01:002011-09-25T04:37:19.738+01:00Well, of course, that has been the party-line talk...Well, of course, that has been the party-line talking-point spin of many self-styled "reputable" breeders about PDE, but it is not, by any means, a factual statement. If you have fallen for that blather, I suggest that you watch PDE again (or perhaps for the first time). -- Rod Russell, Orlando, Florida USA. <br /><br />and you Rod must be Jemimas Dad.. or favorite uncle..if you do watch the drivel again.. make sure to see the part about the Nazis and the Kennel Club.. such a lovely piece of journalism.. such a fair depiction of all breeders and people who show dogs.. even the Jewish ones.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-9974047149532580362011-09-25T04:31:54.019+01:002011-09-25T04:31:54.019+01:00Outcross to small working type cockers? How does t...Outcross to small working type cockers? How does that make any sense for a lap dog breed? Have you any experience with how mad working type cockers are and worse off, how very very few of their breeders do any sort of health testing? You'd only be adding more health problems to a breed already wracked with enough of its own. You might solve some structural faults from individual crossed breedings, though with little reliability as an outcross project as very few working type breeders could care less for conformation or type.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-46384527850122274552011-09-25T01:08:07.189+01:002011-09-25T01:08:07.189+01:00Elizabeth says,
" Why did you not educate t...Elizabeth says,<br /><br />" Why did you not educate the public to go to 'ethical' breeders who health test their dogs and who have a proven track record of breeding sound, healthy puppies? You highlighted about 12 breeds or so.. what about the other 200..? Why have you not gone to all the breed clubs to see what their codes of ethics are? ....and relayed those to the public."<br /><br />Jemima,<br /><br />Why did you not demand a year-long weekly series?<br /><br />Then you could have done all the above and broadcast every minute of every interview you did in two years of filmimg. <br /><br />We would have been able to spend one programme listening to the complete interview with Simon Swift.<br /><br />I doubt whether the conclusions that the general public would have reached would have been any different.Margaret Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-43685456048103593202011-09-25T00:38:29.128+01:002011-09-25T00:38:29.128+01:00Anonymous (Elisabeth) wrote: "The majority of...Anonymous (Elisabeth) wrote: "The majority of people that have complained about PDE have done so because the programme was very biased against all pedigree dogs and breeders." --- Well, of course, that has been the party-line talking-point spin of many self-styled "reputable" breeders about PDE, but it is not, by any means, a factual statement. If you have fallen for that blather, I suggest that you watch PDE again (or perhaps for the first time). -- Rod Russell, Orlando, Florida USA.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-20359877326507557122011-09-24T15:48:15.684+01:002011-09-24T15:48:15.684+01:00The majority of people that have complained about ...The majority of people that have complained about PDE have done so because the programme was very biased against all pedigree dogs and breeders. There is no disputing that the SM problems in the cavaliers shocked us all and as a dog lover, I was horrified too and glad that attention had been drawn to it and now, subsequently, health schemes are to be in place.<br /> What has angered a lot of us, though, is the fact that you did not contrast this with any other breed or breeders that do make use of all health schemes available and have been doing so since at least the 25 years that I have been involved with dogs and showing. Where was the praise of breeders who already use these schemes? Why did you not educate the public to go to 'ethical' breeders who health test their dogs and who have a proven track record of breeding sound, healthy puppies? You highlighted about 12 breeds or so.. what about the other 200..? Why have you not gone to all the breed clubs to see what their codes of ethics are? ....and relayed those to the public.<br /> Instead, you have alienated the public, leading them to believe that all pedigree breeders are not to be trusted. Now there is a really bad situation with indiscriminate cross breeding where there are no proper safeguards in place and regulated health schemes... and revealing more problems with puppies. Not saying you are wholly to blame but if you are going to make another programme please educate the public away from any puppy farmed dog buying.. . pedigree, designer cross, or otherwise!<br /> ElisabethAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-84540522256624401872011-09-24T14:51:28.028+01:002011-09-24T14:51:28.028+01:00Congratulations to you, Jemima, and all who have w...Congratulations to you, Jemima, and all who have worked so hard to do something about tackling this horrific condition that afflicts these lovely little dogs. I hope you all enjoyed a well-earned bottle of champagne (each, not collectively!).Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-16803523274997951292011-09-24T09:19:06.545+01:002011-09-24T09:19:06.545+01:00I see the Cavalier Health Liaison Committee has a ...I see the Cavalier Health Liaison Committee has a link on their website to a Dutch website carrying out a health survey on Cavaliers<br />http://www.cavalierpopulation.com/<br />There ia page on this Dutch website with a summary of health problems in the breed. Which says that Cavaliers have no more health problems than other breeds, and the incidence of SM is extremely low. What planet do they live on?dalriachnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-39982020255728902052011-09-24T08:42:04.070+01:002011-09-24T08:42:04.070+01:00This is great news indeed: well-done! I hope that ...This is great news indeed: well-done! I hope that the CKCS clubs in FCI countries who haven't yet done anything much concerning SMI tests & screening yet will also follow suit in due course!Jackie Bearenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-30263455808189740352011-09-24T07:47:23.235+01:002011-09-24T07:47:23.235+01:00He also insisted that there was no proof that SM w...<i>He also insisted that there was no proof that SM was genetic (ie inherited)..."</i><br /><br />Wait ... what?<br /><br />So a disease that is effectively limited to one small gene pool, is dead common in it, and basically unknown outside of it -- how ELSE does he propose that CKCS become afflicted?<br /><br />Do they anger the gods? Imbibe a foul draught brewed by a witch? Step on a crack?Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-35037689996521731722011-09-24T04:28:14.116+01:002011-09-24T04:28:14.116+01:00Simon Swift was the UK club's cardiologist and...Simon Swift was the UK club's cardiologist and he wrote this in order to smooth his relationship with the Cavalier Club after the programme. We understand Simon's reasons for writing as he did, but remain confident that we represented his views accurately in the film. <br /><br />If anyone would like the full transcript of his interview please email me: jem@pedigreedogsexposed.comJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-38389488550376025472011-09-24T00:59:12.222+01:002011-09-24T00:59:12.222+01:00Simon Swift Cardiologist "I was interviewed a...Simon Swift Cardiologist "I was interviewed at the Liverpool Small Animal Teaching Hospital and asked to provide a Cavalier owner for them to film. They were very well informed, knowing the answers to most of the questions they asked. They spent a morning at the Hospital and filmed the Cavalier owner and my interview. They recorded a total of about 23 minutes with me of which about 30 seconds were used. Any positive comments I made about the clubs testing programme and breeding scheme were cut. I was very frustrated by the missed opportunity the film presented. I had hoped that the programme would suggest that people bought their cavalier puppies from accredited breeders who were members of the Club as a testing programme was in place. Sadly that was not the impression left by the programme."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-40962662303686851752011-09-23T23:29:43.348+01:002011-09-23T23:29:43.348+01:00Congratulations to everyone involved in this, it f...Congratulations to everyone involved in this, it feels like a relief. I have a three and a half year old Brussels Griffon who was diagnosed with CM/SM by Dr Clare Rusbridge at a very young age. He came from a top breeder and judge and like most members of the public I did not have a clue what heartache and worry was coming our way when we got him. We did as much research as we could into the breed and went on the Kennel Club website in 2008 where it would have been wonderful to have seen such a scheme in place.sammymolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18380348435949389319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-53134209362269000902011-09-23T21:40:25.362+01:002011-09-23T21:40:25.362+01:00Even if it´s only a repeat of what Kate Price alre...Even if it´s only a repeat of what Kate Price already said: Margaret Carter, Carol Fowler, Clare Rusbridge, the BVA and Jemima, and others not known to me: thank you! Good work!<br /><br />Yes, it´s a good day for Cavs. But it´s a good day too for any other breed, health problem today or waiting around the corner, because it shows there´s a way to stand by our dogs, have things out in the open and start bringing about a change. If we want to have pedigree dogs in the future, if we want to change the way people look at pedigree breeding, this is what we must do.Bodil Carlssonhttp://collievaenner.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-82491082945593881962011-09-23T21:33:53.241+01:002011-09-23T21:33:53.241+01:00How wonderful. Congrats to PDE and the owners/bree...How wonderful. Congrats to PDE and the owners/breeders that stood firm for the Cavalier.<br /><br />Also, how amazing, not a single negative remark against this blog topic!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-41532057623808359892011-09-23T21:25:24.910+01:002011-09-23T21:25:24.910+01:00"almost all the breed having the chiari-like ..."almost all the breed having the chiari-like malformation....."<br /><br />People accusing campaigners devoted to the breed as "...suffering from MS by Proxy....."<br /><br />Words fail me - but this doesn't surprise me!<br /><br />I fear it may already be too late for this wonderful breed! <br /><br />The fact that the person who has done all the complaining about the scenes in PDE relating to CKCS is now Chair of Cavalier King Charles Liaison Committee is something that beggars belief! How can the breed move on if you have someone who is blindsighted at the helm?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-44867201275003229712011-09-23T19:22:50.157+01:002011-09-23T19:22:50.157+01:00Yes, there is cause for celebration after almost t...Yes, there is cause for celebration after almost three and a half years since the Companion Animal Welfare Council's meeting in April 2008, where it was decided that there should be official schemes for CMSM and MVD. <br /><br />The Estimated Breeding Value programme for Cavaliers was started in February 2008 but the EBVs are not yet robust enough to be used as a guide to breeding choices. This is due in part to the failure of breeders to submit their MRI results to the AHT under the old scheme (some did but many did not). Now the results will be sent to the AHT automatically. Provided sufficient numbers of breeders take up the new scheme the EBV programme will at last be available to help them to make good breeding decisions in relation to CMSM.<br /><br />But what of Mitral Valve Disease? Still 50% of Cavaliers will develop a heart murmur by the age of 5 and many suffer and die young because of it. The Heart Scheme was 'put on hold' because of the difficulties with the implementation of the CMSM scheme. Who will now drive this scheme forward so that heart screening results may also be fed into the EBV programme?<br /><br />The Cavalier breed is by no means out of the woods yet. I agree with a previous poster in recommending that a scientific outcross project is put into place as an additional measure to widen the Cavalier gene pool and address the health problems of Cavaliers. These dogs and their owners have suffered too much already. Enough (as they say) is enough<br /><br />Carol FowlerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com