tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post3077988142999959716..comments2024-03-20T17:32:35.238+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: Silent Witness?Jemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-87250128971057574572011-03-26T22:10:12.577+00:002011-03-26T22:10:12.577+00:00As a good friend of the late Mike Stockman I fin...As a good friend of the late Mike Stockman I find you comment rude and nasty you have no right to question his record in the word of dogs or as vet, its sad world when such nasty and untrue things are said just to premote such a blod, shame on youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-27161889746674798552011-03-25T20:29:01.343+00:002011-03-25T20:29:01.343+00:00"What if the vet simply advised that (statist..."What if the vet simply advised that (statistically) the purchaser's best bet would be a more or less random-bred Jack Russell pup provided the seller was keeping the mother as a family pet in the home and all her vaccinations were up to date?"<br /><br />One would hope that if a vet was placed in a position of recommending a particular breed, then he would not just be focussing on any potential health issues. Perhaps the random bred Jack Russell may be deemed the least likely to suffer from hereditary 'defects' but this type of dog will be far from suitable for a lot of homes. A generic dog does not suit all and sundry, however healthy it is. Health is of course important but it is EQUALLY as important to take into account the temprement and characteristics of the breed. Terriers, no matter how healthy, are not for all. <br />You will also never remove personal preferences from the equation. Humans are a very visually orientated species. Whether you're talking about a spouse, car, pair of shoes or dog, appearence counts for a lot. You might be able to persuade someone towards a Welsh Terrier rather than a Lakeland, but no one who wants a small, pretty, long haired dog is going to seriously consider a greyhound or lurcher. <br /><br />In addition to whether or not a breed has significant/prevelant health issues, the suitability to the prospective owner's requirements is paramount. The healthiest dog in the world will not be advantageous if it is totally unsuited to the owner's lifestyle.Julianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-3872636864937761762011-03-25T16:00:14.346+00:002011-03-25T16:00:14.346+00:00wondering why kate price bought a pug when she'...wondering why kate price bought a pug when she's so clued up on dog health-related issues? was it an experiment? clearly she should have known it would only lead to heartache?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-49763130580129998652011-03-25T10:11:22.005+00:002011-03-25T10:11:22.005+00:00What if the vet simply advised that (statistically...What if the vet simply advised that (statistically) the purchaser's best bet would be a more or less random-bred Jack Russell pup provided the seller was keeping the mother as a family pet in the home and all her vaccinations were up to date?<br /><br />I think part of the problem for vets is that there are simply too many inter-related issues (not necessarily listed here in what I think is their order of importance:<br /><br />Breed standard related problems<br />Simple harmful mutations (which CAN be removed by health tests and everyone agrees should be dealt with).<br />Polygenic problems.<br />Effects of inbreeding.<br />Effects of breed related problem genes getting out into the wider dog population (e.g. almost anything large being crossed with a Staffordshire).<br />Socialisation issues.cambstreasurerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07757408851026721272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-66376809907368175702011-03-25T07:20:35.215+00:002011-03-25T07:20:35.215+00:00Skeptical wrote: "So what happens when a vet ...Skeptical wrote: "So what happens when a vet gives the ''go ahead'' on a particular puppy, and the said pup develops a problem later.....litigation against the vet?"<br /><br />I am sure vets would want to be very careful about recommending a particular puppy. In fact, vets have recently been advised to no longer sign documents drawn up by breeders confirming that a pup has been vet-checked because of the worry concerning litigation. This is because breeders' paper work can over-state the extent and breadth of such a vet-check. Instead, I believe a standardised document is being drawn up making clear that the vet-check offers no guarantee of future health. <br /><br />So vets will no doubt be extremely cautious but in this particular instance we are talking about providing general breed information, not recommending a particular puppy. Although don't forget that new owners do sometimes get their pups vet-checked in response to puppy contracts which offer a short period in which to return/seek legal recourse should there be a problem and so are already vulnerable to some extent.<br /><br />I have heard many in the dog world saying that many vets know very little about some individual breeds and I am sure that is the case. <br /><br />I am suggesting, therefore, that some effort is put into ensuring there is much better breed info made available to vets that they can pass on to their clients. <br /><br />And, obviously, I do not mean the shockingly-bad breed health manual for vets recently produced by the KC.<br /><br />JemimaJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-66909885494002337802011-03-25T06:52:36.041+00:002011-03-25T06:52:36.041+00:00I have to agree with Skeptical, sounds like lawsui...I have to agree with Skeptical, sounds like lawsuits against vets to me. No vet even with the clearest background of a puppies parentage can predict future health, be it genetic or recessive. Some conditions only surface at older stages in dog's life, as a potential pet owner, I see this as a gamble.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-17337013994454839192011-03-24T20:29:09.488+00:002011-03-24T20:29:09.488+00:00"We found this again and again while making P..."We found this again and again while making Pedigree Dogs Exposed – silence bought either by money or because of the profession’s long standing relationship with the Kennel Club"<br /><br />That is quite an assumption. Ever think they just did not want to be associated with you and your program? and rightfully so.. many smart people don't want their picture on the cover of the National Enquirer either.bestuvallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03034419139639335716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-58166389736809759822011-03-24T19:36:41.054+00:002011-03-24T19:36:41.054+00:00So what happens when a vet gives the ''go ...So what happens when a vet gives the ''go ahead'' on a particular puppy, and the said pup develops a problem later.....litigation against the vet?Skepticalnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-69226205123703944922011-03-24T17:54:47.725+00:002011-03-24T17:54:47.725+00:00Reading? Laughing more like! Maybe I've been o...Reading? Laughing more like! Maybe I've been out of the South East for too long. But, get real. I guess my practice is rural, so passing trade is non-existent. The vets are helpful enough to put up posters for customers advertising puppies and kittens for sale. Does that count as advice? I don't think so. They've also handed out my phone number to people with problem Dalmatians. I'm not dissing the practice, I have no complaints, I'm just pointing out a huge reality gap. I agree that vets are missing a trick, but there must be a reason for it. For example, pet fees versus farm animal fees? Just a thought.Spotty Muldoonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09824810309757196312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-84107246576296559172011-03-24T12:20:13.520+00:002011-03-24T12:20:13.520+00:00"And, later this week, the Veterinary Times p..."And, later this week, the Veterinary Times publishes an article in which both the British Veterinary Association and British Small Animal Veterinary Association call jointly for "urgent action" to address the obvious conformation problems seen in the Neapolitan Mastiffs at Crufts"<br /><br />And they need to look at the best of breed pug too.<br /><br />http://www.flickr.com/photos/thekennelclub/5529133579/sizes/l/in/photostream/<br /><br />There was me thinking the amendments to the breed standards would improve the dogs. This dog clearly has a heavy over the nose wrinkle, whites of the eyes showing, eyes not even straight, nostrils the same size as my pugs too.<br />Sorry but NOTHING has changed.Kate Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12984661154425549615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-33571601699687577542011-03-24T09:47:37.239+00:002011-03-24T09:47:37.239+00:00As said, I see real potential for vets to re-inven...As said, I see real potential for vets to re-invent in this respect. A vet-a-pet advice service, or somesuch. Could be all kinds of incentives/freebies/tie-ins offered (perhaps even things like discounted insurance via a tie-in with PetPlan etc) that would make it genuinely attractive to those wanting to get a dog - and of course it would bring in good business for the vet. I really do feel that, currently, the vets are missing a trick here. They could play a much bigger educative role - not just in terms of health but in terms of general dog ownership, too.<br /><br />Could, perhaps, be done to inc an interactive computer terminal at vets - and with those with high street locations, it could even be built into windows so the passing public can use, something already being done by some estate agents. That way the info can be standardised.<br /><br />Would be very interested to hear some views from vets if they're reading.<br /><br />JemimaJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-52166183082401445742011-03-24T08:27:07.200+00:002011-03-24T08:27:07.200+00:00I think the main problem lies in the fact that mos...I think the main problem lies in the fact that most people do not see the vets as a source of information BEFORE they get a new dog. Once they get a new dog they then choose to go to the vets for routine vaccinations, wormers etc, or because they now find their dog has a problem and vets are there to help treat it.<br />Vets do offer "puppy clinics", but again this is once you HAVE the dog. I suppose they could start some "thinking of getting a new puppy" clinics where they advise people on the right choice of dog, what health checks their chosen breed, genetic and conformational problems the breed is prone to etc. <br />They could maybe do evening talks to their clients, give out leaflets and do display boards too.<br />However, I think most clients would just think it is easier to choose what puppy they get themselves, sadly in many cases based on what the dog looks like, and if they go the extra mile and do some research they can do it at home on the internet.<br />Then we get a dog taken to the vets with an breed related illness. Lets take my dog Olive the pug. Taken to the vets at 10 weeks old because I was worried about her breathing being strained. I was told "this is quite normal for a pug, and as she grows it will improve".<br />A classic example of how vets today have become desensitized to problems. Olive then went on to have 3 anaesthetics over time for various issues. Finally one vet mentioned her soft palate and when I took her to the RCVS Potters Bar low and behold she was diagnosed with laryngeal collapse grade 3.<br />I do believe vets lack the knowledge on pedigree dog genetic and conformational related disorders. I do believe they are unaware of the various health tests that are out there. <br />When someone walks in to the surgery saying they want to breed from their dog, yes the vet can give advise on what tests they should do, even turn around and say they do not think the clients dog should be bred from but I think they feel they have to be careful not to offend, not to lose the client who can just walk out and go to another vets.Kate Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12984661154425549615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-37304110879172353952011-03-23T19:23:13.717+00:002011-03-23T19:23:13.717+00:00My experience of vets is limited - 3 in my life. A...My experience of vets is limited - 3 in my life. All very nice people working in busy, primarily equine and agricultural animal practices, who couldn't give a hoot about the Kennel Club or breed standards. For me, they have prescribing power, but absolutely no knowledge of my breed (Dalmatian). Thankfully, all I need is the prescriptions - routine flea, tick and mite stuff and vaccinations, nothing more sinister! So, I think we're dealing with 2 levels of vet - those in local practice and those in the veterinary schools (the establishment?).Spotty Muldoonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09824810309757196312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-15391084406920057972011-03-23T19:08:06.434+00:002011-03-23T19:08:06.434+00:00"And, later this week, the Veterinary Times p..."And, later this week, the Veterinary Times publishes an article in which both the British Veterinary Association and British Small Animal Veterinary Association call jointly for "urgent action" to address the obvious conformation problems seen in the Neapolitan Mastiffs at Crufts"<br /><br />It will be intersting to see if the vets have examined the neapolitan mastiffs at crufts and to see if their comments are evidence based or just plucked out of the air. Strangly you mention a couple of ethical principles and as yet I have seen little of ethic's applied to these blogs or many of the posts. My Neapolitan Mastiff won best puppy at crufts and have not been apporached by any vet to review him, yet I have a number of vets who rate him both in terms of breed standard and in health. And have the appropiate documention to prove so.<br /><br />Chris Coopertommyc2004https://www.blogger.com/profile/16347468423262838606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-87941042520119234762011-03-23T16:24:39.665+00:002011-03-23T16:24:39.665+00:00Did you approach any of the other vet schools, or ...Did you approach any of the other vet schools, or just Bristol? You don't seem to have an across the board viewpoint of all the schools - just one. Seems a strange way to comment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-23284024659676750602011-03-23T16:22:00.307+00:002011-03-23T16:22:00.307+00:00Its a difficult situation for vets. Stand up for w...Its a difficult situation for vets. Stand up for what you believe and a breeder can just find a different vet...its a balancing act...Charlottehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16746703637525804150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-9843386606134854252011-03-23T15:39:16.505+00:002011-03-23T15:39:16.505+00:00At least the vet school was honest about why they ...At least the vet school was honest about why they couldn't help you. <br /><br /><br />This is a big problem.<br /><br />When science becomes so subservient to the powers that be that real inquiry can't go on, it is always bad for science.<br /><br />This is very sad.Retrievermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15780519136583108632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-50785551902135866672011-03-23T14:49:37.021+00:002011-03-23T14:49:37.021+00:00To be honest I'd rather deal with a vet who...To be honest I'd rather deal with a vet who's sold his soul to the Kennel Club than a vet who's sold his soul to the dog food companies.<br /><br />And yeah, how dare the Kennel Club donate money for health research to, you know, scientists doing health reasearch for dogs?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-5973941322340787382011-03-23T11:47:00.725+00:002011-03-23T11:47:00.725+00:00Well I know my vet wouldn't advise anyone to b...Well I know my vet wouldn't advise anyone to breed their lab without doing all the checks (but then she has labs herself), but I agree that the advice (if any given at all) can be very patchy/subjective at the moment.<br /><br />There are some moves afoot to address this - and, actually, I think it has the potential to be a huge opportunity rather than a burden to the vets. At the mo, I don't know any brand new potential owner who would ask a vet about what dog to buy. They may, perhaps, ask if they are already reg'd with a vet and are in there with an existing dog. But I can see a future where vet surgeries could supply a great service in this respect and in doing so bring in more custom for themselves. At the moment, most vet surgeries do not have very much kerb appeal in terms of bringing in the public. But that clearly has the potential to change.<br /><br />JemimaJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-68987993114322094702011-03-23T11:32:06.644+00:002011-03-23T11:32:06.644+00:00...- "and also address how vets can help cons......- "and also address how vets can help constructively in terms of education of the puppy-buying public"... <br /><br />Yes, it would be ideal, wouldn't it. Unfortunately too many of the vets are totally unaware of any of the breed specific health tests, diseases - hereditary or not. They are unaware and unable to advise dog owners on breed specific genetic tests available for hereditary diseases... <br /><br />One of the most heard sentence by a wannabe breeder sadly is " yes, my vet says my bitch is in perfect health and I can breed from her"... <br />So, presuming the said "healthy bitch" is a labrador - it too often has unscored hips & elbows, unchecked eyes by an ophtalmologist, lack of prcdPRA, CNM or EIC genetic tests - BECOUSE the vet hasn't the faintest idea of these existing tests...<br /><br />The KC "recommends" some health tests in its site. Obviously it only reaches those in active search of information. <br /><br />I really don't know which body should educate who as no-one seems to handle the total picture on canine health issues! <br /><br />-labpack-Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com