tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post1367008637690488729..comments2024-03-20T17:32:35.238+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: Jilly's Jolly JauntJemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger185125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-46845301915469694872013-06-18T16:53:08.568+01:002013-06-18T16:53:08.568+01:00When the term 'Rescue' came into vogue a d...When the term 'Rescue' came into vogue a decade or so ago, it was immediately and proudly put in a way that hinted at more than a dog’s origins. <br /><br />It was a statement: I "adopted" a Rescue Dog. I care more. I’m more politically correct. I’m morally superior. <br /><br />Takeaway: I’m better, and a better person, than you are.<br /><br />As someone working clinically with dogs of all breeds/mixes for several decades, it's a fact that random-breds aren't typically any healthier than their poor blighted purebred relatives. Ask any vet. It's just that we know how the purebreds do because we have pretty comprehensive breed snapshots these days, and much of it voluntarily-contributed worldwide. <br /><br />A recent AVMA abstract: http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.242.11.1549<br /><br />Shelter pets can be lovely. Just remember that it's a pretty fair bet that none of their ancestors were health-tested for anything and that feel-good "adoption" can be a mixed bag. <br /><br />There are plenty of breeders worldwide who are ethical and honestly trying to voluntarily do the right thing. And there are plenty of bad ones. Tarring everyone with the same brush or just dismissing an entire fancy out of righteous indignation doesn't do much to further the cause.<br /><br />Try as you might, you cannot legislate someone's morality.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-90523016221138833602013-06-14T00:51:47.339+01:002013-06-14T00:51:47.339+01:00Since the 2008 Vizsla Club of America Health Surve...Since the 2008 Vizsla Club of America Health Survey. 400 dogs, average 9.15 years.<br /><br />I don't understand why people feel the need to point out that dogs can live longer than the average. That's the nature of averages. Some will live longer, some will live shorter. Funny how nobody ever said something like "my breed average lifespan is 12-15 but it's not uncommon for them to die at 5-7.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-71387937401072971842013-06-13T13:03:35.053+01:002013-06-13T13:03:35.053+01:00Since when was the average lifespan of a Vizsla 9 ...Since when was the average lifespan of a Vizsla 9 years of age? It is generally considered to be 10-12 years of age (like most other medium sized breeds), however, it is not unusual for them to live as long as 15 years or older. I lost one who was 3 months short of her 16th birthday last year, I also have her daughter who will 13 years old at the beginning of September this year, maybe some people actually ought to check on their facts before making statements such as this!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-2153984575115961762013-05-28T10:55:14.337+01:002013-05-28T10:55:14.337+01:00To anonymous above, yes, it's possible for a m...To anonymous above, yes, it's possible for a mutation to crop up in any line. This again leads to my point that the real problem is when certain kennel lines become over-popularized to the point where a majority of fanciers are breeding along the same lines. This is how genes become spread across an entire breed, not by having a maximum number of distinct lines within a breed which themselves each form only a small % of the total population. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-8779294443819963002013-05-27T00:15:55.934+01:002013-05-27T00:15:55.934+01:00If you want to talk about possibilities, maybe you...If you want to talk about possibilities, maybe you should also talk about the chances of the dog or bitch used for linebreeding carrying some rare diseases.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-32746546902821126952013-05-26T17:50:01.312+01:002013-05-26T17:50:01.312+01:00I disagree that one can simply look at Jilly's...I disagree that one can simply look at Jilly's pedigree and make a blanket statement. Yes, there is linebreeding going on, but there are other things that need to be considered. Are her lines popular and widely available within the breed? If so and many people are all breeding along the same lines, then I agree it's a very bad thing because it further erodes genetic diversity and disproportionately skews the breed toward that line and any health issues they may be carrying. However, if it's an uncommon line, one that's not being over-bred and valuable for the breed's overall diversity, linebreeding can also be a way to concentrate rare pedigrees and their associated genes ensuring they move forward and aren't lost. While this may limit the number of ancestors in an individual pedigree, it might help conserve a breed's genetic diversity overall by preventing all of these alternative pedigrees from becoming too diluted or swamped out by lines being over-bred. I think this is important because it's possible that one of many relatively uncommon lines within a breed may some day be found important in breeding out health issues that have otherwise become widespread in a breed. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-16678938772089983422013-05-03T16:33:52.807+01:002013-05-03T16:33:52.807+01:00http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/...http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/test/Default.aspx Can I point in in this useful tools direction... It gives you all the current health tests that are available for the dogs breed. Surely this si what you are talking about?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-24622678055296499612013-05-02T18:57:05.991+01:002013-05-02T18:57:05.991+01:00Where I live, there are frequent sightings of spot...Where I live, there are frequent sightings of spotted deer. Their markings resemble a paint horse, and some of them are really striking.<br /><br />The only "predator" around here is the automobile (deer hunting is popular in the state, but this is a very built-up area with townhouses and condos being the norm). The piebald deer actually have an advantage, as they're easier for drivers to see. Wonder if there'll be more and more pinto deer as time goes by?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-532462991336856872013-04-27T23:29:46.807+01:002013-04-27T23:29:46.807+01:00rather than target dogs whom are cared for, albeit...rather than target dogs whom are cared for, albeit 'some' whom are inbred or closely bred in line would you please publicise the Council whom has just authorised planning permission for 78 breeding dogs - no health tests, no decent breeding conditions and dogs whom are 'unhealthy' "run" by an elderly couple whom couldn't cope with a cattle farm............... this NEEDS big publicity NOW PLEASE <br />http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=569353469764459&set=a.447838248582649.104112.446313758735098&type=1&theaterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-38284119556381805422013-04-25T14:53:22.215+01:002013-04-25T14:53:22.215+01:00Yippee, anon 09:38, contact the KC and draw their ...Yippee, anon 09:38, contact the KC and draw their attention to BASCO database. They really must do something and your suggestion may start to tickle their ribs and whilst they are scratching, their brain may connect, think it is their idea, and off we go. However they arrive at the right conclusion is alright by me just so that Pedigree Dogs are given a fair chance to get better and improve. Georginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-69473959657453662182013-04-25T09:38:55.415+01:002013-04-25T09:38:55.415+01:00I refer once again to the BASCO database used by t...I refer once again to the BASCO database used by the farming industry, if you register your stock it's mandatory and is publicly available for all! I think it's clear to see why such a database is not in place but it should be set up immediately for dogs by the kennel club or its charitable trust and make testing mandatory like they do in the farming industry, the KC should also be using the charitable trust to subsidise testing for serious disease and expensive tests, then they really would be starting do the right thingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-17894426133673093292013-04-24T17:03:09.439+01:002013-04-24T17:03:09.439+01:00Continued
You also have Tervs. While you’re at i...Continued<br /><br />You also have Tervs. While you’re at it, look at the Tervs too. How much do your Tervs look like Albert, Curlis, Baronnet and Rosa de Souverain? Again, how far do you think these dogs would get in the show ring with today’s judges?<br /><br />In my opinion, type has changed visibly if you pay attention to details. Why was this OK in the past, even after the breed standard had been set, but not now?<br /><br />The UK Breed Standard on temperament: “Wary, neither timid, nervous nor aggressive.”<br /><br />Your comment on another thread on this blog:<br />“I'm deliberately breeding out the breeds reactivity and wariness towards srangers - this might make them less able to do the job they were originally created for but most certainly fits them for their new - (and more relevant role)”<br /><br />I’m glad that as a responsible breeder you are not including dogs with bad nerves in your breeding programme – that is not only sensible but also within the criteria of the breed standard. Wariness is not a sign of bad nerves, though there is a problem in BSDs, I admit, and in my opinion it is because too many show breeders don’t know or care about the difference. I’m glad you do. But you do breed away from it by your own admission. Again, why is it acceptable for you to deliberately breed away from the breed standard when it comes to temperament?<br /><br />Your dogs are very pretty and I’m sure I’d like them if I met them. That is not what I’m questioning. What I am questioning is your absolute commitment to preserving an artificial, very narrow concept of “type” at all expense, including genetic health, but your willingness to play around with temperament, another genetic breed characteristic, in order to turn them from working animals into pets.<br /><br />One last thing. I wasn’t going to respond to your tirade at all but have changed my mind because I’m getting really tired of your description of people who are involved in protection sports. Yes, there are people out there like those you describe. They don’t get very far because they are focussed on the wrong thing and clubs aren’t interested in them. If you look at the last two videos or registered dogs, what you will see is absolutely phenomenal obedience and control of the dogs combined with dogs that have to be trained to work independently and make the correct decisions. That’s what these sports are about, as well as selecting for dogs that do real and dangerous work. Do you have ANY idea the depth of understanding a dog’s temperament is required? Do you have ANY idea how many thousands of hours of slow, patient, utterly dedicated work it takes to get a dog to do high-level obedience, tracking AND protection work? Most people can’t cope with even one of these areas and do it well. <br /><br />Yes, like many, I admire the mental and physical soundness required of the dogs to do this work. I admire the commitment of their breeders and trainers. I also enjoy watching the HGH Championships (that’s herding) on the Leerburg site for the same reasons. Most people would compare it to watching paint dry with a strong preference for the paint. I know the incredible level of work this activity also requires and to me, watching a really good pair of GSDs moving a large flock of sheep around the German countryside is also a source of wonder and pleasure, even to the accompaniment of 1980's elevator music. Work is work and it is beautiful to watch physically sound dogs doing it.<br /><br />Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-43594495259094677132013-04-24T17:00:12.921+01:002013-04-24T17:00:12.921+01:00Thank you for the response, Bijou.
“Those that a...Thank you for the response, Bijou.<br /><br /> “Those that are the product of CONTINUOUS outcrosing do not look like Malinois - those that stay within the Malinois gene pool do ! ...if you have proof that this is not so then show me”<br /><br />Asking for proof is a fair point and I do wish I were technologically clever enough, or had time enough, to make up a “spot the mix” photo contest, but I’m not and I don’t. <br /><br />The dogs below are openly identified as KNVP mixes. Granted, they probably wouldn’t get very far in the show ring, but the same could be said of the majority of registered Malinois too. These dogs sure look like Malinois to my eyes - of course you may differ on that but I'd like to know what part of the breed standard they don't meet. And any subtle differences between them and “purebreds” would disappear pretty quickly in their descendents if they were mated with “pure” Malinois and selection criteria were in place for the desired Malinois traits. By “continuous” outcrossing, I don’t mean that every generation of every “family” would have to be outcrossed. My original guideline was .02% - .04% every generation *across the breed*.<br /><br />My apologies – I know how you feel about protection work and I’m not trying to force it on you but the videos are of dogs for sale to police departments and that is what a lot of them have to do.<br /><br />http://www.sportandprotectiondogs.com/for_sale.html (Look at Racky)<br />http://www.sportandprotectiondogs.com/our_dogs.html<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iq4d95pY6co#!<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=D2zgRof46UM#!<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XFb4w6UbIVw<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Wyik1jdPxwo<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UrbIf-eMrU4#!<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v35vX4sHeBQ<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=STiF9qFtI6Y#!<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rgXKvCpONYc#at=39<br /><br />For comparison, here are some registered working-line Malinois. Again, there is some protection work but that is what many of them are bred for and tracking does not make very interesting video so you don’t get much of it:<br /><br />http://loupsdusoleil.com/our-dogs/<br />http://www.woodyacresranch.com/Dogs/B_Malinois/BM_Sires.php?dogname=Arek<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85Ib77xozFY&list=PLP9-yPtrqeWYeN_yDnvneNZTGazLnnLIc&index=1<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJiapCG62qE&feature=related<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6w_o5OTvQQ<br /><br /><br />Thank you for the nice image of the 1919 dog. I agree that there are dogs in the past that look like modern dogs – I never said there weren’t. But there are also dogs that did not. You can go back a bit further in time if you go to this website, which I have given you before:<br /><br />http://www.camidecatheric.org/HISTORIQUE.htm<br /><br />Scroll down to the Groenendaels and ask yourself how much your dogs look like these dogs (I’ve selected dogs with photographs, not artists’ renditions that may or may not be accurate): Marquis, Dax, Pluton, Jules, and Ducon. They are recognizably Groenendaels to me, but my dogs look quite different from them, though the differences are subtle ☺.<br /><br />There’s this dog too: http://baza.belgi.pl/modules/animal/dog.php?id=6418<br /><br />He’s in both my dogs’ lines and they don’t look much like him.<br /><br />Look at their proportions and the size of their heads. Look at the muzzles. Look at the stocky build of Dax and Jules. Look at the expression in Ducon and Jules’ eyes. Do these dogs meet the modern definition of “type” for show breeders? Would judges you know give these dogs championships?<br /><br />Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-64628549658562793362013-04-23T21:29:54.912+01:002013-04-23T21:29:54.912+01:00Thanks Sarah, got it now. And Bijou. Less of ...Thanks Sarah, got it now. And Bijou. Less of a twit now!!Georginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-60655276171119082412013-04-23T18:03:26.736+01:002013-04-23T18:03:26.736+01:00KC's can't say "nope, you're a pu...KC's can't say "nope, you're a puppymill, we won't register you" because they will get sued.<br /><br />Who's to create the definition of a puppymill or Backyard(BYB) breeder?<br /><br />I had a local twit tell a friend of mine I was a BYB. . .her reasoning? My dogs spend all day out in a two acre pasture, to run and play, and chase(and often catch!) birds, bunnies, etc. It's why my dogs are a mass of muscle, and do so well on the field. . .but to her, I'm a "Back yard Breeder" because I don't do it HER way. . my definition is someone who does nothing with their dogs except breed a litter to make money. . .which one is right?<br /><br />Mielikki's Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03318742138744615477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-32455076388194832732013-04-23T17:57:06.708+01:002013-04-23T17:57:06.708+01:00The vast majority of my breedings are 5% or lower ...The vast majority of my breedings are 5% or lower COI. . .I have one litter that is 12%, and will be outcrossing. . .I try and breed like to like, but I am breeding for running dogs not cookie cutter show dogs, tho we do do our winning in the ring, in fact, dog out of my first litter went BOB at a regional specialty from the Bred By Class, COI? A whopping 3.6.<br /><br />As for outcrossing to another breed. . it is not easy. .. if I had the choice, I'd outcross to a gorgeous, hardy, NGA greyhound, but the first Generation would look like Chart Polski's, and greyhounds temps are more terrier like, so I'd have to weed out for temperament. . .and it's hard enough placing pups now, and not every breeder can keep 8 Borzoi Xs, and would have to do something people abhorr to hear(Culling). .I can't 'cull' for health problems, let alone because of lack of homes.<br /><br />Mielikki's Hunthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03318742138744615477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-61359733383452640432013-04-23T07:55:50.084+01:002013-04-23T07:55:50.084+01:00I'm sorry Sarah but simply pointing me in the ...I'm sorry Sarah but simply pointing me in the direction of KNPV Malinois as 'proof' that continuous cross breeding produces dogs that look and behave like the breed they are supposed to be is counter productive.<br /><br />Those that are the product of CONTINUOUS outcrosing do not look like Malinois - those that stay within the Malinois gene pool do ! ...if you have proof that this is not so then show me <br /><br />1. BSD type within the Groenendael, Tervueren and Laekenois varieties has remained largely unaltered - this dog was born in 1919 and is behind my current lines<br /><br /> http://baza.belgi.pl/modules/animal/dog.php?id=4816<br /><br />click forward to the present day and you will see very little change in breed type <br /><br />2.the behaviour that originally defined the breed was one of watchfulness, sensitivity to change, agileness, trainability and intense loyalty - all of which I have retained within my breeding programme and are some of the most important characteristics of the breed, some lines were over nervous and it is this type of dog that I avoid breeding from - the physical appearance of the breed is directly linked into the job it was bred to perform - that of a moderately built unexaggerated shepherding breed - we have no right to change it in order to make it more successful in our hobby ..and that includes breeding 30lb 30 inch high prey drive versions that many of the 'Bite Sport' breeders are producing as a result of cross breeding . <br /><br /><br />Georgina - KNPV is a sport which has raised the bite work element of Shutzhund to an extreme level, here is an excellent overwview <br /><br />http://leerburg.com/schvsknpv.htm<br /><br />bijounoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-2202889618962620672013-04-23T07:04:19.522+01:002013-04-23T07:04:19.522+01:00Georgina, there’s no “twit” about it – there’s no ...Georgina, there’s no “twit” about it – there’s no reason the vast majority of people would know about the KNPV.<br /><br />KNPV is the (Dutch) acronym for the Royal Dutch Police Dog Association and they conduct police dog trials and certification. The dogs bred for this are largely unregistered dogs; because they are selecting for function only, there is no compunction about mixing breeds to get the working traits required. The work these dogs do is largely, though not exclusively, protection work; they are not competition dogs, though there are KNVP competitions. KNVP dogs are sold to police, military and other K9 handlers around the world, including the US Department of Defence’s Military Breeding Dog Programme in Lackland, TX.<br />Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-29277280011488135342013-04-22T21:48:15.361+01:002013-04-22T21:48:15.361+01:00The simplest way of avoiding continuance of known ...The simplest way of avoiding continuance of known health issues is that all breed clubs set up a health data base. Most, more likely all, BC have a code of ethics which imply that members have to uphold the health and welfare of the breed. This being the case then members should submit details of any health issues experienced, whether by them, or puppies sold on. For the database to have any effect, the information provided would have to be litigation free, it would have to include the dog's KC name/number, parentage, dob, number in litter, whether litter mates have been contacted and are affected, health checks undertaken with official vet confirmation, COI and any other relevant details. It is the only way that a pattern can be identified within a breed, it would have to be undertaken by an independent panel to avoid malicious inaccurate input. <br />This is only a suggestion, others may have a much better idea, but something has to be done to allow a sick breed to get better. The other thing about it is that other breeders could use the information when planning a litter. Anyone knowingly use high risk stock, should be expelled from the club and the KC notified and they should refuse or retract registration of any resulting puppies.Georginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-65741372578987358862013-04-22T21:13:17.477+01:002013-04-22T21:13:17.477+01:00Hi Anon 09:59. One would hope so too. I very mu...Hi Anon 09:59. One would hope so too. I very much doubt "if the commentators and other experts at Crufts etc" because they didn't did they, and they had the perfect public forum in which to do so. <br />In this instance Jilly is such an adorable, delightful little character and on the face of it deserved her placing as a show dog. The television viewers of the programme would see that too, they wouldn't understand that her genetic make up could be a possible future problem and it would be horribly sad if it did. If Crufts BIS had been an inbred huffing puffing bulldog/peke/pug, limping Neapolitan mastiff etc and one of the commentators had expressed concern about the genetic make up then the Public would have been scandalised because they would see what "inbreeding" can lead to. However, it would have fallen on deaf ears if any of them had passed comment about Jilly because on the day she looked the epitomy of health and vitality, gorgeous. Georginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-56319451253154986912013-04-22T20:15:55.749+01:002013-04-22T20:15:55.749+01:00Could this twit ask what KNPV means and the contex...Could this twit ask what KNPV means and the context in which it is used??? ThanksGeorginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-45794222094525861352013-04-22T15:37:13.373+01:002013-04-22T15:37:13.373+01:00Bijou,
You issued a challenge to provide evidenc...Bijou, <br /><br />You issued a challenge to provide evidence that there was someone outcrossing on a regular basis and still producing dogs that were recognizably of a certain breed. I provided you with an example. Some KNPV Malinois do display physical traits of other breeds; other KNPV Malinois look like, well… Malinois.<br /><br />I answered your question regarding evidence but you did not answer my questions. All I got was an off-topic tirade that evades the questions and does nothing to disprove my example either. Could you please give me straight answers to the following:<br /><br />1.“Type” has changed in the last century. Why is it unacceptable to have any further change in “type”?<br /><br />2.Why is it acceptable to change the behaviour that originally defined the dog but not acceptable to change the physical appearance that was a by-product of the selection for function?<br /><br />Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-45490093087573207662013-04-22T14:32:04.541+01:002013-04-22T14:32:04.541+01:00I think the only conclusion is that breed and resi...I think the only conclusion is that breed and residual behaviour is never a guarantee. There are some BCs that don't read the manual, as there are some Labs who are afraid of the water....but at the same time, ignoring breed tendencies ( as in the case of your whippet example) would also be foolish. Behaviour is simply far too complex to be so predictable. Genes and environment produce the phenotype. I'd definitely question the research model - these seem more behavioural/temperament traits as opposed to flat out predatory behaviour testing? The latter may be difficult though and perhaps research ethics would be difficult to grant if it involved potentially dead prey!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-84175457484388638432013-04-22T13:18:29.972+01:002013-04-22T13:18:29.972+01:00"If Svartberg’s finding is correct, that mode..."If Svartberg’s finding is correct, that modern purebred dogs have maintained no detectable apti-tude for the specialized work of their forebears..."<br /><br />Interesting, but my Whippet (show x working lines) knows how to catch rabbits with zero input from me. He knew instinctively how to grab one of my hens, despite her large size, and would easily have killed her had I not intervened. He'd beat most other breeds in a race too. <br /><br />Not traditional to his breed though, he's also great at scent work. <br /><br />I have heard of BCs that are afraid of sheep, but the International Sheepdog Society (ISDS) is certainly keen to preserve the breed's herding traits. <br /><br />Mnay gundog breeds are still worked, albeit it's usually the working lines, rather than the show lines. <br /><br />From what I could tell, he focused on testing several traits - playfulness, curiosity/fearlessness and sociability - rather than whether the dog is still capable of doing the function for which it was originally bred. What he tested for and the conclusions that he then drew, didn't seem to match-up. Am I missing something?Frannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-65316711240144953232013-04-22T09:59:24.373+01:002013-04-22T09:59:24.373+01:00Hi Georgina - just checked her website, she does i...Hi Georgina - just checked her website, she does indeed breed Grandes, you are absoultely right! However, with her background in zoology you would hope this would instill some applied scientific understanding with regard to dog breeding. She may very well be an exemplary breeder and I am certainly not implying that she isn't, but I wonder if the commentators and other experts at Crufts take the issues discussed on here seriously when approving judgments made at dog shows, such as Jilly winng Supreme Champion, but actually being extremely inbred?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com