So? On average, larger dogs have higher vet costs than smaller dogs. "Labradoodle" is a strange group as it includes toy poodle x Lab, miniature poodle x Lab and standard poodle x Lab. Standard poodles do have some pretty serious breed-genetics problems.
hey if I have Corvette or and Aston Martin it cost more to insure it than a Kia why because the KIa is not as valuable and if damaged I will be less inclined to have it fixed and will just get a new one
We object to a Labradoodle being called a mutt! A Labradoodle is a deliberate hybrid to produce a predictable series of traits, a MUTT (or crossbred) is generally of unknown breed parentage and produces a series of unknown and often variable traits. Labradoodles are therefore well on the way to being recognised by Kennel Clubs - since ALL breeds started out as planned hybrids. Unfortunately as the "F-number" of the Labradoodles increases, so do the genetic issues. Genetics #101 folks (and those folks a the KC's reckon they know genetics? Even a schoolkid studying science knows that!)
There are tons of purebred dogs that didn't start out as planned crossbreeds like the labradoodle! A LOT started out as landraces, shaped by the environment and the need of the people that have them for centuries. Nothing hybrid, crossbreed about them. Planned or not. That some landraces has been split into a bit too many breeds making them go through a genetic bottleneck not strickly necessary to preserve the dog type is another matter. But they're still not anything close to a labradoodle in inheritance.
Labradoodles on their way to being a breed are they?!? do if they are why not given an actual name and not the "hybreed" doodle that looks good on an advert, well for you to give them a name it would need to describe what they are for ie the job they were developed or bred to do, or the area/region they came from......having a trouble soingthat for a doodle are you? yeah just one of many reason why they will not ever be a registered breed for a kennel club. Although "cashcow" would be a more accurate description.
I do not believe mixed breeds are healthier - I have groomed many a Labradoodle and Cockerpoo with raging skin and ear issues. If you breed crap to crap you are going to get crap no matter what the parent breeds are. My friend's Heinz 57 has had 2 hip replacements and a knee replacement. And he has seizures. Healthy breeding stock = healthy offspring. I love crossbreeds myself (the cavalier/cocker mixes and the Pomeranian/husky mixes) but it all starts with knowing your breeding stock.
I'll echo you- I've been a veterinary assistant for 10 years, long enough that I've noticed trends. We seem to see more small dogs- mostly for horrible teeth, luxated patellas, GI issues, bladder stones, ear infection, etc, all of which occur regardless of age. Once the dogs get older we see more of the diabetes, congestive heart failure, hypothyroidism, liver/kidney issues, etc. And it doesn't matter whether or not the dog is purebred or mixed- breed a small dog to a small dog, you end up with similar small dog problems. The most common larger dogs we see are labs and lab-mixes, pits and pit-mixes, maybe your German or Australian Shepherds or Border Collies or crosses thereof, who usually come for skin issues and ear infections, or else ortho issues like arthritis, hip problems or broken cruciate ligaments (which seem to be more related to obesity than to purity of breed). Now granted, we are only one clinic, and not even one of the more "upscale" (longer established, more expensive) vets in our area that would attract the show breeders in our area, but I'd think we're pretty representative of what the average person in our area owns. Now the average person doesn't wait months and shell out thousands of dollars for a puppy from a reputable breeder- they get their Pit from their buddy who bred their dog, or their Shih-Pom from the pet store, or their Lab x Shepherd pups in the newspaper or Craigslist.
Agree, I can't speak for countries other than Australia, but the splitting of the species into 2 "camps" does domestic dogs no favours.
The pedigree breeders have no direction but inwards. Any "Improvement" comes through elimination and breeders have no bench mark of possibilities outside of what exsists within their own breeds at present. A brilliant cross breed has no avenues to sell its potential .It will never be held as an example of possibilities or choice.
The cross breeders are deprived of knowledgable mentors and those who do know their stuff and work towards genuine, worthy goals are driven away with cries of "unethical! Backyard breeder! unpredictable!" Temperamentaly sound and healthy dogs of known parentage within the K.Cs are not permitted to be used in any breeding program not under K.C sanction. So must be got from unreliable or unknown sources. Its oppression of a free market. So yeah, its no wonder there are so many unhealthy cross breeds.
Biologicaly, you have a single species, sharing the same environment but split into 2 antagonistic camps with no division in reality. The division is all on paper and does not need to BE a division.
The expectations held by the environment this species exsists in are not divided. Its the same for both camps.
So the split between pure and cross breed dogs damages the species as a whole. The sooner there is a (forced if needed) recognition that domestic dogs are a single species, equally worthy of the expectations we have for responsibility,the sooner the problems can be effectively addressed. Good or bad practices are NOT divided by a pedigree or lack of. That is a mistaken and unfounded propaganda that influences and shapes the reality.
That won't happen. People want to catagorise, and love predictability. As for "A brilliant cross breed has no avenues to sell its potential .It will never be held as an example of possibilities or choice." In agility and flyball, sport mixes are very popular. Border collies mixed with terriers and whippets are very sought after in these sports.
However, for breeds that are used for serious work, such as border collies for use on livestock, Malinois and German Shepherds for police and army work, Labs and goldens for use as guide dogs etc. You need predictability. Breeding a Border collie to a Poodle be very unlikely to make a better herding dog unless by fluke. Breeding a Pug to a Malinois will likely end up with a dog which is useless for bitework and useless as a companion for the average person, of course depending on the random factors of genetics.
The main problem is with genetic diversity. Purebreds are extremely useful in giving the choice to choose a dog that will have a higher chance of having the behavioral traits which will suit the family best. Cavaliers are usually very mild mannered, polite, calm, biddable dogs for example. However, its the riddling of health issues that makes purebreds in a terrible state. This could easily be managed by careful outcrossing while keeping the traits that make the breed what it is still intact. There are people strongly pushing for the above, and I believe it could seriously help purebred dogs as we know them.
OK Kisko. You may heartily endorse a view, but what about, you know, looking at actual evidence?
ReplyDeleteSo? On average, larger dogs have higher vet costs than smaller dogs. "Labradoodle" is a strange group as it includes toy poodle x Lab, miniature poodle x Lab and standard poodle x Lab. Standard poodles do have some pretty serious breed-genetics problems.
ReplyDeletehey if I have Corvette or and Aston Martin it cost more to insure it than a Kia why because the KIa is not as valuable and if damaged I will be less inclined to have it fixed and will just get a new one
ReplyDeleteI guess you missed the bit where it says that the same value was put in for all three dogs?
DeleteSo you actually think that a mutt is dispensable because it is not perceived as valuable compared to a pedigree dog? It's a sentient being!
DeleteWe object to a Labradoodle being called a mutt! A Labradoodle is a deliberate hybrid to produce a predictable series of traits, a MUTT (or crossbred) is generally of unknown breed parentage and produces a series of unknown and often variable traits. Labradoodles are therefore well on the way to being recognised by Kennel Clubs - since ALL breeds started out as planned hybrids. Unfortunately as the "F-number" of the Labradoodles increases, so do the genetic issues. Genetics #101 folks (and those folks a the KC's reckon they know genetics? Even a schoolkid studying science knows that!)
ReplyDeleteThere are tons of purebred dogs that didn't start out as planned crossbreeds like the labradoodle! A LOT started out as landraces, shaped by the environment and the need of the people that have them for centuries. Nothing hybrid, crossbreed about them. Planned or not.
DeleteThat some landraces has been split into a bit too many breeds making them go through a genetic bottleneck not strickly necessary to preserve the dog type is another matter. But they're still not anything close to a labradoodle in inheritance.
Labradoodles on their way to being a breed are they?!? do if they are why not given an actual name and not the "hybreed" doodle that looks good on an advert, well for you to give them a name it would need to describe what they are for ie the job they were developed or bred to do, or the area/region they came from......having a trouble soingthat for a doodle are you? yeah just one of many reason why they will not ever be a registered breed for a kennel club. Although "cashcow" would be a more accurate description.
DeleteI do not believe mixed breeds are healthier - I have groomed many a Labradoodle and Cockerpoo with raging skin and ear issues. If you breed crap to crap you are going to get crap no matter what the parent breeds are. My friend's Heinz 57 has had 2 hip replacements and a knee replacement. And he has seizures. Healthy breeding stock = healthy offspring. I love crossbreeds myself (the cavalier/cocker mixes and the Pomeranian/husky mixes) but it all starts with knowing your breeding stock.
ReplyDeleteI'll echo you- I've been a veterinary assistant for 10 years, long enough that I've noticed trends. We seem to see more small dogs- mostly for horrible teeth, luxated patellas, GI issues, bladder stones, ear infection, etc, all of which occur regardless of age. Once the dogs get older we see more of the diabetes, congestive heart failure, hypothyroidism, liver/kidney issues, etc. And it doesn't matter whether or not the dog is purebred or mixed- breed a small dog to a small dog, you end up with similar small dog problems. The most common larger dogs we see are labs and lab-mixes, pits and pit-mixes, maybe your German or Australian Shepherds or Border Collies or crosses thereof, who usually come for skin issues and ear infections, or else ortho issues like arthritis, hip problems or broken cruciate ligaments (which seem to be more related to obesity than to purity of breed). Now granted, we are only one clinic, and not even one of the more "upscale" (longer established, more expensive) vets in our area that would attract the show breeders in our area, but I'd think we're pretty representative of what the average person in our area owns. Now the average person doesn't wait months and shell out thousands of dollars for a puppy from a reputable breeder- they get their Pit from their buddy who bred their dog, or their Shih-Pom from the pet store, or their Lab x Shepherd pups in the newspaper or Craigslist.
DeleteAgree, I can't speak for countries other than Australia, but the splitting of the species into 2 "camps" does domestic dogs no favours.
DeleteThe pedigree breeders have no direction but inwards. Any "Improvement" comes through elimination and breeders have no bench mark of possibilities outside of what exsists within their own breeds at present. A brilliant cross breed has no avenues to sell its potential .It will never be held as an example of possibilities or choice.
The cross breeders are deprived of knowledgable mentors and those who do know their stuff and work towards genuine, worthy goals are driven away with cries of "unethical! Backyard breeder! unpredictable!"
Temperamentaly sound and healthy dogs of known parentage within the K.Cs are not permitted to be used in any breeding program not under K.C sanction. So must be got from unreliable or unknown sources.
Its oppression of a free market.
So yeah, its no wonder there are so many unhealthy cross breeds.
Biologicaly, you have a single species, sharing the same environment but split into 2 antagonistic camps with no division in reality. The division is all on paper and does not need to BE a division.
The expectations held by the environment this species exsists in are not divided. Its the same for both camps.
So the split between pure and cross breed dogs damages the species as a whole. The sooner there is a (forced if needed) recognition that domestic dogs are a single species, equally worthy of the expectations we have for responsibility,the sooner the problems can be effectively addressed.
Good or bad practices are NOT divided by a pedigree or lack of.
That is a mistaken and unfounded propaganda that influences and shapes the reality.
That won't happen. People want to catagorise, and love predictability.
DeleteAs for
"A brilliant cross breed has no avenues to sell its potential .It will never be held as an example of possibilities or choice."
In agility and flyball, sport mixes are very popular. Border collies mixed with terriers and whippets are very sought after in these sports.
However, for breeds that are used for serious work, such as border collies for use on livestock, Malinois and German Shepherds for police and army work, Labs and goldens for use as guide dogs etc. You need predictability.
Breeding a Border collie to a Poodle be very unlikely to make a better herding dog unless by fluke.
Breeding a Pug to a Malinois will likely end up with a dog which is useless for bitework and useless as a companion for the average person, of course depending on the random factors of genetics.
The main problem is with genetic diversity. Purebreds are extremely useful in giving the choice to choose a dog that will have a higher chance of having the behavioral traits which will suit the family best.
Cavaliers are usually very mild mannered, polite, calm, biddable dogs for example.
However, its the riddling of health issues that makes purebreds in a terrible state. This could easily be managed by careful outcrossing while keeping the traits that make the breed what it is still intact.
There are people strongly pushing for the above, and I believe it could seriously help purebred dogs as we know them.
what age was actually put in for all 3 dogs ? as this reflects price range
ReplyDeletePlease can you provide a link to your Facebook page on your blog page?
ReplyDelete