The handsome beast on the left is my eight-year-old boy Jake - a GSD x sighthound (we think). The handsome chap on the right is Mark Evans, former Chief Vet of the RSPCA - parentage fully-known despite what some call him for referring to Crufts in Pedigree Dogs Exposed as "... a parade of mutants... some freakish, garish beauty pageant that has nothing, frankly, to do with health and welfare"
The picture was taken last week when Mark, now presenting the highly-acclaimed Inside Nature's Giants on Channel 4, came down to us in Wiltshire for an update interview for the sequel to Pedigree Dogs Exposed. We wanted to know if he regretted making such a strong and controversial statement in the film, particularly as many in the dog world feel it was unhelpful.
Mark's answer? Surprising... but you'll have to wait for the film to be broadcast to find out why...
Add @ 22:40 - some more pix of Jake given the interest... (not that I really need any excuse...)
Oh you big tease.
ReplyDeleteI hope that he feels in retrospect he was a little too cautious in his conclusions and wishes now that he had been more categorcial about the harm dog showing (as practised by the majortiy of show people here in the UK at least) has done to our dogs. Especially in the light of the findings of the subsequent reports, the continued lack of meaningful action from the KC and the unforgiveably slow pace of reform in dog breeding.
Yes hopefully with hindsight he feels a more strident approach would have been altogether more helpful to the dogs.
Philippa
Can't wait! When is the broadcast likely to take place?
ReplyDeleteI would like to add that I feel sure most of your readers will agree with me in saying that you have shown tremendous dignity and patience in the face of a great deal of rudeness this week.
You are doing a grand job, keep up the good work!
Pippa
is this the same "vet" who was invited to leave the RSPCA due to the current butchery he is doing to premote his TV career? if it is I can see why he would be willing for more publicity from you? Shame you could interview him at dog show, but then again he has never been to one has he!
ReplyDeleteI guess you mean like that one, Pippa ;-)
ReplyDeleteJemima
PS: we deliver the film end of January and it will be shown sometime after then - no transmission date fixed as yet.
ReplyDeleteJemima
I'm looking forward to watching the sequel, and seeing how much you think things have changed since PDE. I'm more optimistic than Philippa about how much was achieved by PDE. An old experienced dog breeder said to me recently "We didnt like the film when it came out, we thought it made us all look bad, but it has brought about changes that we know now are good for dogs " . And that about sums it up, initially people were shocked, as the Kennel Club were, then they saw the need to make changes, now they are glad the film opened up so many issues around dog breeding. It's only a wilfully blind minority who still go on denying the problems and fighting progress .
ReplyDeleteAnd I certainly have the greatest respect for the way you have worked on steadily for what you believe in, in the face of what has been an appalling campaign of slander and misinformation
Then has Mr Evans ever been to a dog show? it would seem quite odd to allow him to make such comments if he hasnt (can you tell us?) does he still practice as a vet if he is now to be seen a TV Presenter, if not how can he really give up an up todate view on the subject? Would it not be better to go to a real vets practice?
ReplyDeleteI have never been to a beauty pageant for little girls, but I'm pretty sure they suck and are overall bad for little girls.
ReplyDeleteOh, also, I have been to MANY dog shows, going back to the 1970's, and I am absolutely sure that they suck and are bad for dogs.
ReplyDeleteAww, Jake's a handsome boy. I love lurchers.
ReplyDeleteHas he shown any sign of developing degenerative myelopathy, which normally plagues GSDs?
I dont think I've ever seen a lurcher that was a GSD cross. I wonder why?
ReplyDeletewho cares.. he looks like a mutant in a rumpled corduroy jacket and he is losing his hair..must be bad breeding
ReplyDeleteDoesnt matter , with ring training and a good handler , and with good grooming and careful trimming to hide his faults , and a twelve inch high top knot held in place with lots of laquer, he will look just fine on the film
ReplyDelete@Heather Houlahan then it seems even you are more qualified to talk about Dog Shows than Mr Evans, given that you have actually been to some, but it seems as Jemima hasnt said otherwise, he has NEVER been to a dog show and therefore is he really qualified to be interviewed on the subject? Is this really the calibre of person that is going to be the basis of PDE2 ? Its a shame, I think the BVA would also distance themselves from this celebrity vet, given his lack of any credability.
ReplyDeletedalriach said...
ReplyDelete"I dont think I've ever seen a lurcher that was a GSD cross. I wonder why?"
I have. Attractive dogs. They're not a common cross, though. Check the HuntingLife forums, there are a few on there.
He must have the same "stylist' as The Donald.look at the "poof" in front. hope he is not "coat tested". he would never pass
ReplyDeleteHandsome is as handsome does.. sorry Mark.. you are not handsome.. the dog looks ok though
Anyone else noticed how on these forums the people with daft opinions almost always have rubbish spelling and grammar ? You could pretty accurately divide the comments into 'sensible' and 'barking' on the basis of the way they said it - without looking at what they actually said !
ReplyDeleteWhere did he get the droopy lips? He must have some hound in him! (The dog not the man LOL)
ReplyDeleteSighthound of some kind, we think. Some more pix of him just added above - from which you can see not really droopy lips.
ReplyDelete"Has he shown any sign of developing degenerative myelopathy, which normally plagues GSDs?"
No. Jake fit, fast and brimming with hybrid vigour. Can still step effortlessly on to the kitchen table from a standstill.
Jemima
a GSD x sighthound (we think), does that mean you didnt get him from his breeders? or was this an accidental mating ? either way it does not sound like it was wall planned or well considered, the same would apply if you got him from a rescue, yet tag on the words hybrid vigour and you make it sound ok, but its not. The whole area of just breeding dogs without responsibilityor health checks is not justa registered pedigree dog thing, indeed you seem to miss out on purpose the wholesale cross breed trade you support with yoru own rescue.
ReplyDeletewould you buy a car from Mark Evans http://www.markevans.co.uk/sellingyourcar.php ? I think as a dodgy second hand car specialist he make a great vet................... which isnt saying much!!
ReplyDeleteDid you pay his going rate as advertised on the After Dinner Agency website Mark Evans
ReplyDeleteAnimal Expert, Television Veterinary Surgeon & Presenter Fee Guide: £2.5k - £5K. ???
Anon @ 23:54 wrote: "does that mean you didnt get him from his breeders? or was this an accidental mating ? either way it does not sound like it was wall planned or well considered, the same would apply if you got him from a rescue, yet tag on the words hybrid vigour and you make it sound ok, but its not."
ReplyDeleteWell only if you think crossbreeds are something awful. Jake was indeed a rescue - a much-loved boy whose owners were forced to give up when Dublin City Council brought in a two-dog max rule for council tenants. I imagine he was probably the result of an accidental mating, but believe me it was a happy accident. Jake is a real gift - a unique, fabulous, funny, fit, character boy who, frankly, knocks many purebred dogs into a cocked hat.
"you seem to miss out on purpose the wholesale cross breed trade you support with your own rescue"
I rehome mostly strays - purebred and cross/mixed breeds - from pounds. These are dogs that would otherwise be dead. No one makes any money out of them.
Jemima
"Did you pay his going rate as advertised on the After Dinner Agency website Mark Evans - Animal Expert, Television Veterinary Surgeon & Presenter Fee Guide: £2.5k - £5K."
ReplyDeleteCost us a cup of coffee and an oat biscuit, Anon.
But do keep it coming. For some reason I'm finding it fantastically amusing this evening.
Jemima
I am always so sad that the interwebz doesn't display the many colors of crayon in which your Anon commenters form ... well, for shits 'n' grins, let's call them 'thoughts.'
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDelete"The whole area of just breeding dogs without responsibilityor health checks is not justa registered pedigree dog thing, indeed you seem to miss out on purpose the wholesale cross breed trade you support with yoru own rescue."
15 October 2011 23:54
What, you mean like purebred rescue supports backyard breeders and puppy mills? (That sarcasm, btw.)
Heather H feels to say "well, for shits 'n' grins, let's call them 'thoughts.'" well such langauge I think says more about her thoughts than anyone elses, its seems she does not need crayons to have such a colorful tonge.
ReplyDeletea much-loved boy whose owners were forced to give up when Dublin City Council brought in a two-dog max rule for council tenants.
ReplyDeletesays the author.. what are you doing to fight these terrible laws? Where is your influence when these "limit laws' are passed? Why are you not speaking to every council members you know.. and those you don't know.. as an expert on dogs.. and why "limit laws" are terrible.. .. where is your "dog in this fight"? or is it just trashing pure breds that makes you money?
I imagine he was probably the result of an accidental mating, but believe me it was a happy accident. Jake is a real gift - a unique, fabulous, funny, fit, character boy who, frankly, knocks many purebred dogs into a cocked hat.
says the author.. and really I have many pure breds who would do the same to your "mixed breed" dog.. so it is really not about what is bred.. it is about what is randomly bred for you? Very sad...anyone can take photos of their dog at the beach.. in fact that is exactly what the bulldog video showed.. a healthy happy dog at the beach.. so what? Is there some point to this?
Jake......what a handsome, healthy, happy dog he looks, and I bet you don't have to pack a jif lemon in your pocket when out walking him.
ReplyDeleteOnly if we were stopping for pancakes en route.
ReplyDeleteThis is a bulldog reference, right, Kate? That they carry lemon juice with them to help clear the airways if they get into respiratory distress?
Jemima
Yes, it apparently helps break down the phlegm that can build up in the bulldogs throat when over heating or over excited. Lemonade, sprite and apple cider vinegar are good too.
ReplyDeleteI thought PDE 2 was ment to be shot this Summer and shown at the end of the year, whats happened?
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 05:11 wrote: "...and really I have many pure breds who would do the same to your "mixed breed" dog.. so it is really not about what is bred.. it is about what is randomly bred for you? Very sad"
ReplyDeleteThe point I was challenging is that Jake is somehow less valuable/justified/acceptable because of his provenance. It is not primarily because he is a mix - although I do do think he's a considerable improvement on many purebred GSDs - it's just because he's a fabulous dog. As it happens, I'm just as enthusiastic about my purebred flatcoat. She hasn't had a day's illness either and is 10 now. I worry about her more, though, conscious as I am of the cancer burden in the breed.
Jemima
Loving the photos of Jake!
ReplyDeleteGoing on the fluffy ears and fluffy tail, I'd hazard a guess that Jake is crossed with a Saluki.
Looks like he'd make a good agility dog. :)
Bulldog lemon action...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKlhPIUucyY&feature=related
Jemima
totally ignoring my comment about the "limit laws" and former comments about the DAA Jemima goes on to say:
ReplyDeleteMy dog is FABULOUS.. ".. well yes we all think that.. but he is a mixed breed .. not even a cross that can be proven like the Toller debacle. Where are the pictures of your Flat Coat doing the same thing at 10? Would that be too costly to your 'cause". You have to mention "worry" because she is a pure bred.. do you not worry about your mixed breed as you know nothing about the health of his ancestors? No one mentioned Jake being any less valuable. You are the one who said that.
"Doesnt matter , with ring training and a good handler , and with good grooming and careful trimming to hide his faults , and a twelve inch high top knot held in place with lots of laquer, he will look just fine on the film "
ReplyDeletesorry he won't qualify..temperament problems I am sure he would bite the judge besides you need balls to be in the ring. but you need a monkey to grease.. he is your man..
To Jemima:
ReplyDeleteJake is absolutely gorgeous! Thank you for sharing the photos.
To all the Nasty Anons:
Criticism and abuse are not the same. Criticism is intelligent and contributes to improvement. Abuse is the last refuge of the defeated. You are saying nothing about Jemima. Think about what you are saying about yourselves.
Just love Jake, what a handsome lad he is!
ReplyDeleteSorry but I loathe Mr Evans and that is not because of his comments on PDE but I have watched him on various self promotion programmes and think he is a total idiot.
I could manage some more photos of your lovely dog though.
waaa waaa waaa Sarah..I am sure Jemima can defend herself. When people put themselves in the spotlight as Mark Evans does they should expect some jibes and barbs thrown at them, especially when they make off the cuff comments like ME did and still does.
ReplyDeleteNo matter how gorgeous Jake is ( and he is attractive) nothing can be known about his health, his background nor the longevity prospects .. all of which are topics for discussion here.
You cannot take ONE example of a mixed breed dog and hold it up to the world as "fabulous".. if the owner thinks so.. of course.. that is right.. but to say this is how all dogs should be and this dog is better than a pure bred is nonsense.. pure anthropomorphizing or wishful thinking.. just like taking one or two photos of a dog you don't like which is done her almost daily and using that as an example of what is wrong with dogs of a certain breed.. note that Jemima show ones Bulldog with a lemon .. but there are so many other videos that show bulldogs doing all sorts of healthy activities including ones that match Jake at the beach..but of course those are ignored in favor of the one used to prove the point
Jemima.. so will you buy another Flat Coat or continue to promote the breeding of mixed breed and rescue dogs.. it is all the rage now so soon pure breds will be off the map and unknown underground dogs with unknown histories and health issues will be being bred.. what good does that do? How does that fit into your scheme of things? Here in the States we see pure breds being turned down in favor of the "rescue" dog.. that can be anything from a dog from a "puppy mill" with the usual excuses about why the temperament is so dicey.. ( hates men.. was beaten was "overbred" was .. well just think of any excuse for bad behavior from a dog and the "rescuer' will tell you why it is normal for "their rescue") to the dogs seized by the HSUS is a "raid" on legitimate breeders. none of these dogs are papered ( but what the heck) ALL of them are castrated so further limiting the gene pool to those who let their dog breed when they want to because they know there will be poor suckers to "rescue' them and all of the people who get them puff out their chests and think they have done something good for dogs when in essence they have actually done something to further the breeding of unknown dogs..
guessing at a dogs pure bred status.. GSD x Sighthound cross (WET THINK) may be fun for a parlor game but really who knows how many of these crosses are a result of brother sister, father daughter, mother son matings. The cross may be several generations back.. so close up breeding could be the norm even for your dog Jake..and so it goes.
Anon @ 17:41 wrote: "Where are the pictures of your Flat Coat doing the same thing at 10? Would that be too costly to your 'cause". You have to mention "worry" because she is a pure bred.. do you not worry about your mixed breed as you know nothing about the health of his ancestors?"
ReplyDeleteI worry because the odds are against her. Over 50 per cent of flatcoats devleop cancer by the age of eight - and the median age of death is 9. Maisie is now 10. Pictures? Black dogs hard to photograph but I'll put some up at some point - and not just of her nostrils, as I did on this post:
http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2010/11/your-dog-has-no-nose.html
Jake: nothing tangible to worry about there. Not a single day's illness since I've had him. GSDs can have a holy host of health problems; salukis far fewer. Jake is vet checked regularly of course - from which we know that he has a V12 heart and no sign at all of any joint problems. He is far more active than Maisie, but then he is a little younger and everything about him was born to run - which he does; at least 10 miles a day (in fact probably more) on Salisbury Plain.
Jemima
running a dog 10 miles a day!! so why not put your money where your mouth is, what is Jakes hip score? if you say he does not need it as he can run, well thats daft as even teh worst score dogs can run, and as you keep on telling us those show freaks should pass a health test before they get a proze, why not give us ACTUAL proof just how healthy he is, and not just an opinion!
ReplyDeleteJake is neutered, can't be bred, and his hip score is of no use to his 'breed'. That said, I'm curious to know if his hips are as good as I and my vet think they are, so the plan is to hip-score him should he be anaesthetised for any other reason. I'll let you know... Meanwhile, I am happy to trust Jake's judgment re how far he should run given that there hasn't been a day's lameness. He would shrivel up and die if he couldn't and I consider his spirit/psychological well-being just as important.
ReplyDeleteWe have another cross (golden retriever/collie) - Luka, who is 12 now and has arthritis bad enough to require Previcox. Luka doesn't know when to stop so we do have to limit him. But as he's another whose psychological well-being hinges on hunting (NB not catching before I get accused of allowing my dogs to murder poor defenceless animals) we walk him every other day and on the days he walks he is free to run/track as he wishes - works well for him.
I actually have never demanded that"show freaks should pass health test before they get a prize" - just before they are bred. Although I do think they should gain points for having been screened (and more if they have passed) as I think it's important that the show-ring is seen to reward tangible good health, rather than just the subjective appearance of it.
Jemima
Anon 20:13 said:
ReplyDelete‘waaa waaa waaa Sarah..’
If this is your idea of intelligent comment, complete with five punctuation errors in four words, why would I take you seriously and read any further? I didn’t. Thank you for proving my point.
Of course, if what you are interested in is scoring points with the ignorant, unintelligent and nasty, do carry on.
I would like to know when Jemima is going to use all that time, wealth, and influence she has to improve the state of public education! The lack of reading comprehension and complete inability of some individuals to express themselves in a clear and easily understood manner is absolutely appalling, and I demand she do something about it immediately!
ReplyDeleteso much exerecise is realy a bad thing for any dog, good hips can be made bad, indeed working sheepdog, work in smaller burst and not one or two "excercise" breaks in a day that would add up to 10 or more miles, have by the time they retired worn away their hips, so why subject your dog to this future misery? If you say it a need to wear off his energy does that not prove that having bred without ANY concern to his nature and temprement is reson why so irresponsibel breeding should not be celebrated as being the best way to breed that the Hybrid Vigour virtue is not all it is cracked up to be. As for you saying "I consider his spirit/psychological well-being just as important." remember that when at age 7 his is on a daily tablet too to control the pain, or is that another thing you will edit out to try and prove your own case/views?
ReplyDeletedalriach said...
ReplyDeleteDoesnt matter , with ring training and a good handler , and with good grooming and careful trimming to hide his faults , and a twelve inch high top knot held in place with lots of laquer, he will look just fine on the film
Mmmm and maybe a low COI lol
Jake is already eight years old. If he begins to show signs of difficulty, we'll slow him down then.
ReplyDeleteBut tell you what Anon... come for a walk with me on Salisbury Plain and you can judge for yourself rather than throwing potshots from your armchair.
Feel free to bring your own dogs. What breed will I have the pleasure of meeting?
Working sheepdogs can do way more than 10 miles in a day - in fact even up to 100 miles in somewhere like the Lake District, in much more taxing terrain than we encounter in Wiltshire.
You know, 10 miles really ain't that much for a big, fit, running dog. Even our truly ancient old spaniel x (14) still covers three or four miles on a walk (albeit at a plod alongside me).
Jemima
Yes, I really want to know what poor benighted breed is owned by the Anon who thinks that a ten mile walk is a canine Bataan Death March.
ReplyDeleteI'll allow that, for many of the morphologically deformed animals, as well as for the delicate flowers whose toesies are not to touch the dirty ground, this feat may be impossible. I do resist the reframing of those disabilities as "normal."
A structurally normal, healthy dog easily blows through ten miles in a brisk hour.
A wolf covers 40 or 50 miles a day, more if he's got somewhere to go.
let me get this straight.. you have three mixed breed dogs..one 10 year old pure bred.. and you are an expert on dog breeding? Have you ever bred a litter of puppies? More than one? Of either pedigreed dogs or "cross breds"?
ReplyDeleteInteresting that you can post pictures of other peoples dogs.. criticize them and trash them when you yourself have never experienced an actual breeding, rearing and placement of puppies of your own breeding. anyone have a grain of salt.. ?
whoa. wait a minute.. 14 is now "truly ancient".. I thought all dog were supposed to live that long or even longer according to this blog. Why at 14 I thought he/she would be as spry as a pup, you know being a cross and all.
ReplyDeleteGlad to know he/she is still making it round the plains
But can Jake do this?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150317250750919
It's a guess that Tangle is 14, but reckon it's about right. We think he's had a hard life and there's evidence that he had distemper as a pup - he has "distemper feet" that slow him up quite a bit and mean we can only walk on grass/soft ground. But he still manages a slow two-hour walk every other day. Fourteen not a bad age for a medium-sized (25kg) dog and he ain't dead yet.
ReplyDeleteThe mix of purebred/crosses ebbs and flows but the current pack comprises one purebred and eight mixes, including a 22wk old english setter/springer mix boy - one of seven unexpected arrivals delivered by a purebred English Setter rescue from the pound who turned out to be pregnant. We did not breed her, of course, but rearing and placing the occasional unexpected pup is all part of running a rescue.
The notion that I need to have deliberately bred purebred dogs in order to be qualified to comment is as absurd as my insisting that you can't condemn puppy farming or dog fighting because you don't have any actual experience of raising your puppies in row upon concrete row in a converted cattle shippon or of throwing two pit bulls into a ring and watching them rip each other to shreds.
Jemima
And your setter/springer mix is another beautiful , lively and very photogenic dog. Seven lucky people got some lovely pups from this litter, and if a group of hardworking rescue people didnt travel over to Ireland regularly to rescue gundogs (pure and crossbred) from the Irish dog pounds, the dam of this litter (who looks like a pure working English Setter) would have been put down while pregnant. How can any rational person object to her having been saved, and her beautiful pups finding good homes?
ReplyDeleteThe post of Anon 17 October 2011 03:38 is a masterpiece of the one with limited - err - intelligency!
ReplyDelete"criticize them and trash them when you yourself have never experienced an actual breeding, rearing and placement of puppies of your own breeding."
So, the quantity of one's breeding makes one an expert, right? In that case the outright experts are the puppy farmers...
-labpack-
Salukis are the marathon-runners of the dog world, so if Jake is crossed with a Saluki, 10-miles is easy for him.
ReplyDeleteI meant to say in my previous post, an experienced lurcher owner/breeder would probably be able to tell you what he was crossed with, if you were interested in finding out.
[Waits for the tirade against lurchers.]
There are people out there in the show rings who agree with the principles of pedigree dogs exposed, who are doing everything they can to ensure they breed healthy and fit for purpose dogs. You are not going to win any favours by calling their dogs mutants.
ReplyDeleteYou all find it hilarious to read the comments with abuse in it, but calling someones prize dog who they have raised for years (it takes alot to rear a show dog) and then you undermining it is exactaly the same. Are you suprised that show people react in this way? I mean I am out there campaigning for healthier dogs and better quality showing but that comment got my back up.
The people who need to change are the people who show. You need to reach out to them and show that change is for the better, rather than just hating and calling names and saying their whole way of life is wrong.
There are people who are listening. Don't lose them with stupid comments.
PS that last picture looks like my 7 year old Pyrenean Mountain Dog. She jumps up onto the table and sleeps on it like that hahaha :D
Less than 2% of all dogs are shown, if you picked on any minority of the human population you would be named a racist.
ReplyDeleteMy goodness I don't know how you can sleep at night with this hatred against you Jemima! What have you done to deserve this? Oh, I remember, you made a ground breaking documentary about the hereditary health issues in pedigree dogs; the findings of which have been confirmed by 3 independent reports - one commissioned by the KC.
ReplyDeleteNobody ever deserves the type of malicious comments seen on here. I realise that there are people out there who are doing a good job in trying to eradicate health problems in dogs - and I admire them greatly! It can't be easy doing this when there is so much objection.
I think Jemima has shown a lot of restraint in answering the posts on this blog.... That she finally lets us see a snippet of what life is like for her on a daily basis, is very enlightening!
Yes, if breeding litters is a testament to experience then puppy farmers are the best breeders to comment on dog breeding - hands down....
I absolutely don't agree with the comment that Crufts is a parade of mutants - but there are some seriously deformed dogs being shown there - although not all. I'm looking forward to seeing PDE2 - I hope it's shown shortly before Crufts.....
Hopefully we will see some "positives". I admire Jemima for seeing this topic through. Most producers wouldn't do that...
PS: I love Jake and you can see the sighthound in him in the pic where he's running. He's stunning. My old boy is 14 now cross collie/GSD and he can still jump the back fence no problem at all.....and he doesnt gasp for breath when over the other side.... He was at the vet last week for a little check up and the vet said he's fitter than a lot of dogs she sees that are half his age....
@ anonymous
ReplyDeletehow dare you criticizes some one else's dog just because it is a cross breed (mongrel),all dogs are cross breeds(mongrels)and most of these dogs are far healther and fitter than most so called pedigree dogs,sorry i mean cross bred!!
labpack.. never said quantity made the breeder.. just that actually planning a breeding, doing the breeding and rearing a litter and placing the pups is something that the blogger has never experienced so why should she be called an "expert"?
ReplyDeleteWould you ask the postman to deliver your baby or would you prefer someone with experience? Ask the auto mechanic to pull your tooth? Or prefer a dentist? "those than can do.. those that cannot lecture.."
Anonymous 17 October 2011 19:40 said...
ReplyDelete"labpack.. never said quantity made the breeder.. just that actually planning a breeding, doing the breeding and rearing a litter and placing the pups is something that the blogger has never experienced so why should she be called an "expert"?"
I have yet to see Jemima call herself an 'expert' in breeding and whelping dogs. (After realizing that many long time breeders are exceedingly ignorant about biology and genetics, and are completely unable to vet the quality of information presented, I am curious as to constitues an 'expert' anyways.) What I see in her articles are the same kinds of questions that I see either novices or interested pet people ask: Why are you doing that? What is the purpose? Is that good for the dogs? What are the long term consequences?
The fact that the so-called fancy cannot give clear answers to these questions is damning.
Reading some of the comments on this site and others makes me ashamed to call myself a dog breeder.
I was about to post to Anon 17 October 2011 19:40 - luckily Jess did it and much better too!
ReplyDeleteI guess it took quite awhile for me to "recover" from anon's amazing train of thought topped with questions without any sense at all!
One question though @ anon 19:40: How old are you, if I may ask?
-labpack-
A wolf may well cover more ground in a DAY but that is the whole point they would only cover 3 or 4 miles in an hour over say 10 or 12 hours, but to make any dog do 10 (and if the off the lead far more than that as I suspect Ms Harrison does not follow the Country Code) in say a hour is cruel indeed!
ReplyDelete"Make the dog" cover ten miles, eh?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure whips and chains are involved.
Just as they are for my SAR dogs. Force 'em to work, we do.
I was once privileged to free-course hare with salukis in the California Central Valley. They covered three or four open miles in about ten MINUTES. Including the leisurely lope back.
But please, Anon who believes its whateverkindofshowdog are "sound' and "healthy" and define canine "normal," keep digging. Your astonishing spin on the physical capabilities of normal, healthy pet dogs -- not even mentioning working dogs -- really bolsters your authority.
Unbelievable. How does posting some photos of a pet dog (very handsome) degenerate to unfounded comments about the Country Code???? I admire Jemima for not disabling the comments section of her blog, incredibly brave. H
ReplyDeleteI wonder what kind of dog Anon 23.52 owns? A gundog on a shoot or a gamekeeper's or falconer's dog or a foxhound can be out working for six or seven hours in day, and covering a great deal more than 10 miles! I've taken working springers up on the hills for a day, when I have walked 15 or 16 miles and the dogs have done 50 miles or more, and still willing to go further by the end of the day. In a day's field trialling with pointers and setters, which can last 6 to 8 hours in the roughest terrain you can imagine, we all walk the hills with the dogs for the whole day, with twenty minute runs at full blast as the dogs compete. A dog that gets through to the final round will probably have had three runs, as well as walking all day.
ReplyDeleteAnd the Country Code? Well, one is required to keep the dog under control, and particularly around livestock. A well trained dog doesnt necessarily need to be on a lead even near livestock, if it is well trained, obedient and steady . All working gundogs should be sheep, deer and rabbit proof. And I'm afraid , walking on a lead doesnt count as exercise for my dogs, they need to run free and off lead for a couple of hours per day, an hour is the absolute minimum even in bad weather
Jemima's dogs look very fit, because they get plenty of exercise, one hour free running shouldnt be a problem even for the older ones
Get real, there are people and dogs out there ,living in a world where a walk with a dog doesnt mean 20 minutes on an urban pavement, whose fitness is obviously beyond anon's experience :))
Jemima:
ReplyDeleteSomething you might be interested in that's cropping up in United Kennel Club show rings, some call it 'Triple Crown.' It's a special Best in Show ring, and dogs may enter only if they meet the following: must be a show CH or GRCH, must have a performance/sport title, and must have OFA or PennHip. (for breeds that do not hip test, such as small toy breeds, they must show some other health test.) Pretty cool, and some beautiful healthy dogs have been shown.
Looks like this has degenerated into "my cross breed is better, healthier and can run further than than your pure bred.. just look at these photos" and all of you pedigreed dog owners and breeders" know nothing compared to the experts that frequently post here to show there prowess and intelligence in all matters canine.
ReplyDeleteLooks as though the blogger believes in cross breeding all dogs and that all pedigreed dogs are not healthy nor fit and that everyone's preference should be for a dog that can run 10 miles in a day every day.
The wonderful thing about dogs is that there is something for everyone, including a twenty minute walk on urban pavement .. or a ten mile run on the plains. One suit does not fit all people.. and that is a blessing
No idea where Anon got the garbage in her last post from . Where has Jemima EVER said "My cross breed is healthier ........ etc"? Where has she EVER said all dogs should be crossbred or that ALL pedigree dogs are neither healthy nor fit? She simply showed some photos of ONE fit and healthy crossbred that lives with her. Why not rejoice with her over this one very handsome dog as he enjoys his daily exercise, rather than twist everything she writes into something negative?
ReplyDeleteJake is gorgeous! I just love lurchers and sighthounds.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree--ten miles a day is nothing for a healthy, young (or middle-aged) dog. I routinely take 9-mile hikes in the Sierras and my whippet-mix and Golden Retriever had more pep and energy than me!
Finally, I also agree with another poster who mentioned the abuse Jemima receives in the comments section of this blog. It's truly jaw-dropping. I can't believe what I'm reading half the time. I never could have guessed a blog like this would provoke such vitriol and histrionics from so many people. To be honest, I sometimes visit just to read the comments (a guilty pleasure). I honestly wonder if so many of the haters realize just how BIZARRE they sound to people outside of the dog-show world.
Good work and I can't wait to see PDE2!
Ro Martinet romartinet@gmail.com
the same as she shows ONE photo of a pedigreed dog in order to trash the whole breed...would you like to see some photos of unfit and very unhealthy cross breds?/ well you must look in other place.. you won't see it here.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this blog should become a photo album of "our dogs" healthy fit and cross bred or not..
Nice that Jemima has her defenders..but to say she only asks questions that other "novices" might ask is to beg the question.. why does she speak as an expert at an animal rights conference as an expert on dog breeding and genetics?
Can Anon get her facts right?
ReplyDeleteJemima does do her research carefully. When she films a Cavalier with syringmyelia writhing in agony, she will also tell you what proportion of Cavaliers are thought to suffer from the condition (it was underestimated in the PDE film). And she doesnt just put up a photo of a dog jumping about happily and say this is a healthy dog, she will also ask about the prevalence of genetic and health problems in the breed and how many dogs are being tested - if there is testing available - and the statistical results from health surveys . Of course one cant do this for cross bred dogs of uncertain ancestry. This is something the opposition to PDE2 could learn from. They are wasting their time putting up photos of individual "happy and healthy dogs", with no information about the health of the breed generally and whether these particular dogs are free from known health problems in their breeds
Further Jemima didnt go to the HSUS as an expert on dog breeding, she was invited to speak as a film producer about the aftermath (reactions and changes) of the first PDE film. However given the amount of research she did in the two years before the film was first shown, she did acquire a great deal of knowledge about both genetics and dog breeding. I will be the first to say say that her knowledge and understanding of canine genetics is better than mine, and I'm a reasonably well educated dog breeder of KC registered dogs, and her general knowledge of canine health problems is broader than mine, because like many practical breeders I tend to focus on just two breeds (working springers and setters). Bur one can always fill her in with more detailed and up to date information about one's own breed , a lot more constructive than constant griping and negativity
Anon of 04.30, did it ever occur to you that Jemima perhaps was INVITED to speak because she is seen as someone who has 1) asked very pertinent questions about the manner in which pedigree breeding is being carried out and 2) along the road has gathered up rather a lot of information about it, and so is seen as someone with something to say? Commonly that is the reason people get invited to talk at conferences...
ReplyDeleteAlso, why do you write untruth? The conference you are referring to was not an "animal rights" event, unless you see any questioning of biologically dubious practices that promote not health, but restrained function, in our dogs as animal rights activism?
Is that how you see it? If so, you certainly will have a lot of "animal rights" activity coming to knock on your door in the years ahead...
Jemima is a journalist. She puts questions that should have been asked long ago. The depressing thing is that so few of you have any answers.
Well,I'll happily show pics of my healthy pedigree and cross-breeds and, just as a reminder, you tell us that only 2% of pedigree dogs are shown.....it is probably the "novices" that are buying the excess so it's quite pertinent that these questions are asked - and answered - but I don't ever see any responsible answers. I thought Jemima was speaking about PDE - not as an expert on Genetics and Dog Breeding....merely pointing out what the 3 independent reports had confirmed.. :-(
ReplyDeleteThe RSPCA report independent?? its was a mash up of other peoples work, quoting about breeds of dogs that arnt even in the UK, it was a like a school childs book report copied from a news paper review of the film of the book they were ment to have read!! The RSPCA made great claims about gathering data, but not even from vets in the UK, and did they ever do this.............. Like Mr Evans credability as a vet, it too is yet to be seen!
ReplyDeleteThe percentage of KC registered dogs that are exhibited in shows is small, the percentage of breed club members that breed KC registered litters is small, but it is the breed club committees that the KC consult when they want information or advice about the breed, so in most breeds the influence of show breeders is far reaching, despite their relatively few numbers.
ReplyDeleteThe pet buyers are the owners that are dealing with the health problems day by day, and so deserve not only to ask questions but also have a voice in decision making about the breed.
A group of Cavalier owners are in the process of setting up a Companion Cavalier Club and intend to apply for KC registration, so that they will automatically be included in consultations about the health of the breed.
Margaret Carter
Why breed clubs don't actively encourage pet owners join the club?
ReplyDeletePeople from all walks of life could be a tremendous source of fresh views and ideas!
Is the image of breeds clubs still too "elitist" among ordinary dog owners?
-labpack-
With 10 CKCS clubs already in existence of which each must have 10 - 12 Committee Memembers and 3 - 4 officers each that means over 150 people the KC consult with, add in that many of the ietms are then given out to members to feedback on (many have never been near a shown ring but are the pet owners that Ms Carter is on about) so what is teh point of yet another club?
ReplyDeleteTo anon 18.14: It's just my experience of course but I have found that the majority of breed club members and committee members are involved in some way with showing or another dog sport. The input of pet owners is very valuable and I don't see a problem with having a companion club that's affiliated with the KC. Surely another one club won't do any harm - and it might actually do some good... I appreciate you may not think there is a point (and of course you are entitled to that opinion) but it certainly won't do any harm and the more people involved in taking the CKCS forward now can only be a good thing. There's no doubt that opening up communication channels is the way forward for all breeds.
ReplyDeleteJake is a gorgeous dog with excellent conformation. I'd be proud to go to an agility competition with him. Looks like he could run circles around most dogs. Also, a really pretty "look."
ReplyDeleteI could understand people being upset.
ReplyDeleteCalling Crufts a parade of mutants,is pretty much saying purebred dogs are mutants. How is his (Possible Saluki) mix breed less of a mutant then a purebred Saluki that would be at Crufts? Neither look like wolves.
I know you may say he didn't mean that,but that's what many people think,it isn't specified.