tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post8588228095042212820..comments2024-03-20T17:32:35.238+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: Blood moneyJemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-18807651916467972872011-08-28T12:24:26.698+01:002011-08-28T12:24:26.698+01:00The blog's purpose is clearly stated above - &...The blog's purpose is clearly stated above - "the latest news and views regarding inherited disorders and conformation issues in purebred dogs". <br /><br />I do run more good news stories than some people think - the acceptance of the LUA Dals, for instance. It's just that not everyone sees them as good news stories.<br /><br />I'd be very happy to run more if people want to send them.Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-4946711427459576822011-08-28T04:55:38.978+01:002011-08-28T04:55:38.978+01:00Anonymous 27 August 2011 12:05 wrote: "Jemima...Anonymous 27 August 2011 12:05 wrote: "Jemima you hardly write anything about the good things thet we do for our breeds," <br /><br />--- Yes, for heaven's sake, Jemima, don't you understand that you are supposed to be a P.R. flack for the breeders and the KC? -- Rod Russell, Orlando, Florida USAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-77743665413645749882011-08-27T12:05:21.850+01:002011-08-27T12:05:21.850+01:00Jemima you hardly write anything about the good th...Jemima you hardly write anything about the good things thet we do for our breeds, you are obsessed with outcrossing there are more ways to widen the gene pool ie imports, more and more breeds are using imports.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-39149571505988414792011-08-27T00:24:24.337+01:002011-08-27T00:24:24.337+01:00Thank you for your comments, Leonarda. I don't...Thank you for your comments, Leonarda. I don't write as much as I should about those who use their dogs for the function for which they were bred, but please know that I have the utmost respect for those that do. It's where many answers lie. <br /><br />Interesting to hear that there were outcrosses historically in bloodhounds - do you mean to different breeds (like eg the Coakham Bloohounds to Dumfriesshire foxhounds) or to different lines? <br /><br />If you trawl the old dog breeding books, they talk about outcrossing (to different breeds) a lot. It was once part of the dog breeder's armoury (and probably even today explains the different type of, eg, working springers... whatever the pedigree may say!).<br /><br />"Stonehenge on the Dog" dating from around 1880 has a chapter on outcrossing and includes illustrations of a bulldog/greyhound x and the sbusequent backcrossed generations - showing as my blog on the Schnauzer/Pointer x does just how quickly you can get back to type. <br /><br />How wonderful that there are untapped bloodlines in the packs. I would hope that the registration of further packhounds now would meet with less resistance than it did in 2006. I'd be interested to hear what you think.Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-51473844620242776882011-08-26T16:48:01.760+01:002011-08-26T16:48:01.760+01:00Dear Jemima
There are quite a few of us out there ...Dear Jemima<br />There are quite a few of us out there in Bloodhounds that support the registration of the Readyfield Hounds by the KC, and we come from both sides of the spectrum, Shows and Trials. I have been in Bloodhounds since 1965, I am not a breeder but have kept Bloodhounds for the sole purpose of hunting the clean boot to compete at Ch Bloodhound Trials and as companions, for the likes of us it has not always been easy to find the type of hound we want, I prefer the smaller clean faced Bloodhound, the athletic type with drive, health and longevity, most of my hounds have made a good age,9,10 and 11, what one feared most in those days was torsion, not the problems within the breed today. Those of us that Trial have bred our own hounds amongst ourselves to get what we want, so please dont TAR us all with the same brush. I come from a Bloodhound Hunting background and spent some years in hunt service to a pack of Bloodhounds where I learned the qualities of out crossing, historically Bloodhounds have always had an outcross, go to the KC library and ask to see the Bloodhound archive, you will also find the archive of the Association of Bloodhound Breeders, one of the oldest breed clubs around, formed by those whom were interested in the working Bloodhound, at one time this Association was only for the working Bloodhound.The KC by registering pack hounds, is trying to bring about change, and will continue to look at the suitability of registering pack hounds, there are many untapped bloodlines within the packs, and contrary to what some of the breeders think,these people do keep records and stud books. Changes are also being brought about re the judging of high profile breeds,this sort of change takes time and doesn't take place over night. I currently own two Readyfield hounds which I Trial; I have friends whom have integrated their bloodlines with the Readyfield lines to help widen the gene pool, quite a number of the offspring are competing at both Trials and Shows and are doing well, and believe you me we are not popular with certain sections of breed. So please don't TAR us all with the same brush.Leonarda Pogodzinskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-90377848404459908902011-08-26T09:24:13.378+01:002011-08-26T09:24:13.378+01:00Thanks Michael. I am not sure that "appears&q...Thanks Michael. I am not sure that "appears" in this case means "not really" (if this is what you're implying?). The US clearly does "require" skin that "falls into loose pendulous ridges and folds, especially over the forehead and sides of the face," when the head is carried low. <br /><br />It seems to me that a compromise is perfectly possible (and encouraged by the new UK breed standards) - ie a move away from too much skin laxity while retaining the dogs' esssential bloodhoundness.Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-73539445560589167732011-08-26T09:01:26.464+01:002011-08-26T09:01:26.464+01:00The AKC standard is as near as can be to the origi...The AKC standard is as near as can be to the original standard written in 1896 by Edwin Brough and Sydney Turner. I presume the reference you make to suparabundant skin is in this paragraph.<br />'The head is furnished with an amount of loose skin, which in nearly every position appears superabundant, but more particularly so when the head is carried low ; the skin then falls into loose pendulous ridges and folds, especially over the forehead and sides of the face.'<br />Note the use of the word 'appears' before superabundant, this puts a different interpretation to your statement 'requires'.<br /> The reason the UK standard was changed was to try stop misinterpretations of the nature you yourself have made.<br />Which I agree with.Michael harrisonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-5151155668288114022011-08-25T21:44:22.831+01:002011-08-25T21:44:22.831+01:00A questions for Bestuvall: here's what the UFA...A questions for Bestuvall: here's what the UFAW website says about eyes/skin folds on the bloodhound in relation to the UK and US breed standards.<br /><br />"The UK breed standard (updated in 2009) specifies that the eyelids should be “oval in shape, meeting the cornea perfectly without any irregularity in their contour. Eyes should be free from any interference from the eyelashes. Any obvious signs of eye irritation must be heavily penalised. The eyesight of the hound should be unimpeded” (http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/16). In the UK there is also a Kennel Club “breed health watch” for the Bloodhound, highlighting the need to avoid ectropion, entropion and the excessive facial skin folds and droop that add to these conditions (http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/breeds/watch/display.aspx?breed=Bloodhound).<br /><br />"In the USA this is not the case and the AKC (American Kennel Club) Bloodhound breed standard includes “eyes deeply sunk in the orbits, the lids assuming a lozenge or diamond shape, in consequence of the lower lids being dragged down and everted by the heavy flews” (http://www.akc.org/breeds/Bloodhound/). The AKC breed standard also requires “superabundant” loose skin on the head."<br /><br />Now have a look at the skin folds on these American bloodhounds (the head shots about a third of the way down the page):<br /><br />http://www.borubloodhounds.com/breedinfo.html<br /><br />The US breed standard CLEARLY selects for defect. You're an AKC judge - do you think there's an argument for changing the US breed standard?<br /><br />I'd be interested to hear what Michael thinks, too.<br /><br />JemimaJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-21971264880090748892011-08-25T19:51:09.013+01:002011-08-25T19:51:09.013+01:00Michael, thanks for the pic of Romper.
Yep, looks...Michael, thanks for the pic of Romper.<br /><br />Yep, looks exactly like a Bloodhound. :-)Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-72538755715843807112011-08-25T19:46:01.086+01:002011-08-25T19:46:01.086+01:00What comment, Anon?
Think I've published eve...What comment, Anon? <br /><br />Think I've published everything today on this thread - apart from an odd one rattling on about meat eating and dog food which added nothing to the debate.<br /><br />Re inbreeding, there are only around 50 bloodhound registrations a year. That would make it very difficult to avoid inbreeding - although I do see that the breed average COI is ony 5.7 per cent, a lot lower than some others. I'd be interested to hear more about how that's being achieved. Imports?Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-5405377385306748292011-08-25T19:12:33.458+01:002011-08-25T19:12:33.458+01:00If you read the AHT report 2009 it says that the b...If you read the AHT report 2009 it says that the breed is not deliberately closely mated.<br />Isn't it quite relevant to the health of the breed as to what they have died of?<br />I was wondering why you have not posted my last comment Jemima?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-16322855738955300322011-08-25T19:05:59.272+01:002011-08-25T19:05:59.272+01:00Hi Jemima
You will have to excuse my computer skil...Hi Jemima<br />You will have to excuse my computer skills but the following should be a link to the picture of Romper<br /><br />http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_g1CQJ9K9Tv8/TIIRkhbgqPI/AAAAAAAAADM/bQ2rdiQ6SR4/s320/26.04.jpgMichael Harrisonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-63975540969371850922011-08-25T18:52:59.791+01:002011-08-25T18:52:59.791+01:00Thanks for the info and the link Michael - would l...Thanks for the info and the link Michael - would love to see a pic of Romper but no way of knowing where on your blog. I'd be grateful if you could provide a link.<br /><br />I'm delighted to hear you were supportive of the packhound registration - it sounded such a sensible thing to do and the KC mentioned how frustrated they were by the breed club response in one of our earliest meetings with them. You must have been in the minority in supporting them?<br /><br />Good to hear your own hounds are beating the odds re lifespan.<br /><br />JemimaJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-32114678643860521822011-08-25T18:40:00.592+01:002011-08-25T18:40:00.592+01:00Jemima please feel free to go to our blogspot
http...Jemima please feel free to go to our blogspot<br />http://mick-ournews.blogspot.com/ <br />where pictures of our hounds and the offspring of the matings with the so called 'pack hounds' can be seen. Also a picture of 'Romper' who is one of the original hounds that was registered.Michael Harrisonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-25201549801442598402011-08-25T18:20:32.300+01:002011-08-25T18:20:32.300+01:00Jemima In answer to your question
I have used the...Jemima In answer to your question<br />I have used the so called 'Pack hounds' in our breeding twice up to present. Our association with those hounds continues. While on the subject these hounds were bloodhounds although they lived in a pack environment having full pedigrees and met every requirement asked by the KC. So yes I was for it and the results of the matings were everything I expected. Yes I still feel now as I did then<br />Regarding longevity I think you will find that survey included only 82 bloodhounds which thinking back to 2004 would represent less than 20% of the bloodhounds in the UK. In my experience in 20 years around 10 years of age would be the median but who am I to argue with figures? Even though they represent a small portion of the breed and are nigh on 8 years old.Michael Harrisonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-10350439310181563602011-08-25T18:12:49.367+01:002011-08-25T18:12:49.367+01:00Bestuvall, the question was not a deflection. Mich...Bestuvall, the question was not a deflection. Michael talked about an outcross every 4/5 gens, and I was interested to know what he meant (suspect he means within the breed and not to a previously unregistered packhound but wasn't sure hence why asked). Genetic diversity is integral to health in my view. <br /><br />Likewise, Michael claimed that the bloodhound had average longevity for a very large breed, but in fact it is near the bottom. And what the dogs died of is not really the point, surely? (Especially given that most of the other breeds in this category are also deep-chested and at risk of it.)<br /><br />JemimaJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-43582664501227064672011-08-25T17:49:16.628+01:002011-08-25T17:49:16.628+01:00I wondered when someone would blame the vet! LOL!
...I wondered when someone would blame the vet! LOL!<br /><br />Really, vets aren't engineering dogs to have more healh problems for them to fix. Unfortunatley, perhaps, developing the ability to fix healh problems that have occured through breeding for exaggeration and breeding too close means some breeders have started to see certain disease and procedures as 'normal' for their breed. It's true that insurance can make the problem worse as the breeders/owners don't have to face the true cost of their poor decisions. We fix the dog, someone else picks up the tab...everything's good? Right? No, not really. Vets are stuck between a rock and a hard place; do we perform the emergency bulldog caesar and be accused of perpetuating the problem or do we turn the bitch away to suffer and die? (we aren't permitted to do the latter). Most of us would do the caesar, discuss the problem with the breeder, advise on future breeding....and know we would be ignored. A few vets are bad and don't report conformation altering procedures, but most of us do, especially when we know the dog is potentially for breeding or showing. It makes us unpopular, but hey. <br />vicky payne (caring, holistic vet!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-52624830891984537212011-08-25T17:37:51.979+01:002011-08-25T17:37:51.979+01:00in other words.. I will deflect what you have said...in other words.. I will deflect what you have said by asking you a totally unrelated question.. and here are some stats that have been done with no relation to how or why the dogs died.. or at least they are not posted here.. <br />( my guess is that many died of bloat.. a common cause of death in almost all large deep chested dogs including mongrels)<br />and for the rest..they will be..<br />Holding hands over ears.. saying LALALA I CAN"T HEAR YOU. You will undoubtedly be placed in the "reality deniers" category.. after all you actually do know something about the breed.bestuvallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03034419139639335716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-50400929717106056822011-08-25T17:19:30.171+01:002011-08-25T17:19:30.171+01:00Michael, as a breeder of such long-standing, I'...Michael, as a breeder of such long-standing, I'd be interested to hear if youwere you for or against the registraton of the unregistered packhounds in 2006? And do you still feel the same as you did then? (For those that don't know, in 2006 - or round then - the KC allowed some bloodhound packhounds to be registered. There was a huge fuss at the time, with the breed club threatening to sue the KC.) <br /><br />As for longevity, median lifespan is 6.79 for the bloodhound. For comparison, in the same weight category (taken from the 2004 KC/BVA health survey, there is only one breed worse. Bloodhounds on average live 3 years shorter than the longest-living dogs in the largest-dogs category, the Newfie.<br /><br />Great Dane: 6.5<br />Bloodhound: 6.79<br />Mastiff: 6.83<br />St Bernard: 7.0<br />Irish Wolfhound: 7.04<br />Leonburger: 7.8 <br />Deerhound: 8.67<br />Komondor: 9.13<br />Pyrenean: 9.58<br />Newfoundland: 9.67<br /><br />JemimaJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-6370007303776683442011-08-25T16:38:51.148+01:002011-08-25T16:38:51.148+01:00It seems to me most commenter's on here have n...It seems to me most commenter's on here have no experience of the Breed. I have 20 years in the breed. This most ancient of breeds is still fit for purpose, unlike many other breeds. When did you last see a bull dog working at what it was bred for?<br />This unfortunate dogs plight has been picked up by the press and blown out of all proportion. Yes it is an unfortunate incident but why blame the breed or the breeder. If a child is born with an affliction do you blame the parents? It is a pity the press coverage isn't as great when a bloodhound finds a lost child or elderly person with alzheimer's disease for instance. Yes, they still do that, enjoying the chase with vigour. Across Europe they are used to hunt wild boar and deer, not killing the prey just enjoying the chase.<br /> Both breed clubs the K.C. and reputable breeders in the UK are doing their utmost to ensure this breed is sound healthy and fit for purpose. As to the comment about the average lifespan of a bloodhound it is no worse than any other large breed of dog. The last bloodhound I lost was 13 years of age, I have another two well above the mean average age stated. I also am a great believer in using an out-cross every 4-5 generations to ensure the health and vigour of the breed. Some on here may understand, no doubt most wont.<br />I will finish by saying don't try blowing your trumpet if you haven't got the wind.Michael Harrisonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-55308631721013225632011-08-25T10:20:00.497+01:002011-08-25T10:20:00.497+01:00Fit for life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q3Rb...Fit for life:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q3Rbv6dvbM&feature=relatedKate Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12984661154425549615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-26859779647794085812011-08-24T23:37:32.965+01:002011-08-24T23:37:32.965+01:00Fit for Function:
http://www.youtube.com/watch_pop...Fit for Function:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=cqxTUxzOceE&feature=youtube_gdata_plaJ<br />who would believe it? who would breed these monsters.. these monstrosities.. these weak animals ? very sad.. their breeders must be horrible nasty people who care nothing for their dogs.<br />By the way Heather you have no idea what qualities I value in my dogs which proves my point about nastiness and mean spiritnessbestuvallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03034419139639335716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-9640381757393202722011-08-24T17:41:02.263+01:002011-08-24T17:41:02.263+01:00I love it! The last resort by the reality-deniers:...<i>I love it! The last resort by the reality-deniers: "I know what I'm talking about and you don't because I'm a breeder and you're not!" Well, you don't have to be a breeder to see that what breeders are doing is disasterous. -- Rod Russell, Orlando, Florida USA </i><br /><br />And if you ARE a breeder, you are the wrong kind of breeder. The kind who would no more breed dogs for the qualities that "bestuvall" values than would chew off her own foot. Your dogs are mongrels. And you know nothing of the realities of the show ring, having opted out of that particular abomination.Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-75812369957641336292011-08-24T17:37:06.660+01:002011-08-24T17:37:06.660+01:00Jemima -- the Coakham hounds are interesting. Thi...Jemima -- the Coakham hounds are interesting. This kind of breeding for sport can be a pillar of a conservation and development program for sound practical mantrailing dogs.<br /><br />If the bloodhound is not being conserved as a practical mantrailer, then what is the point? And the first person who tells me that this is an outdated job for which there is no longer demand so why not just preserve the beast as a fancy breed is going to get pointy boot of fact right up his arse.<br /><br />Bloodhounds are not typically pack hunters (in North America) and are usually worked on a line, which is held by a handler who, after a few years, generally sports some pretty impressive scars from faceplants and Nantucket sleighrides. (The biggest reason among a long list of why a trailing bloodhound is not my cup of SAR tea.)<br /><br />I think these sporting pack-hunting mantrailers look happier and more fulfilled than SAR bloodhounds. Not sure if the genetics for what they do would differ from the those for what SAR and law enforcement trailing dogs do. No way to know without trying it out.Heather Houlahanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13891198124130533198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-47628427158742116102011-08-24T15:31:44.892+01:002011-08-24T15:31:44.892+01:00Ny friend in Switzerland just bought a bassett hou...Ny friend in Switzerland just bought a bassett hound from a breeder in Germany who had imported a dog from the USA with less skin to try and alleviate some of the suffering caused by excessive skin. The puppy is simply gorgeous - and he still looks like a Bassett Hound. He is almost a year now and has grown into a lovely animal. He loves the water, running in the fields and all the things a dog loves to do. Yet another breeder in Germany who is trying to do the best for their breed....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com