tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post814592719181392096..comments2024-03-20T17:32:35.238+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: New kid on the blog...Jemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger166125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-59837629273927373522014-04-07T11:56:48.739+01:002014-04-07T11:56:48.739+01:00Many thanks for the update, Matt. I will look forw...Many thanks for the update, Matt. I will look forward to reading.<br /><br />JemimaJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-17575110071150330172014-04-07T11:41:35.888+01:002014-04-07T11:41:35.888+01:00Very pleased to announce that Canine Genetics and ...Very pleased to announce that Canine Genetics and Epidemiology will publish its first articles on 16th April 2014 at www.cgejournal.org.<br /><br />All articles in CGE are published with an open access license and are free to read! They will also be accompanied by a short summary for non-scientists.<br /><br /><br />Many thanks,<br />MattMatt Landauhttp://www.cgejournal.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-82906309625962051052013-07-22T13:51:01.129+01:002013-07-22T13:51:01.129+01:00Puppy buyers want that cute puppy and a lifetime g...Puppy buyers want that cute puppy and a lifetime guarantee of health; but how many buyers actually make the effort to find the breeders of these types of pups?<br /><br />Breeders of these types of pups are out there and from what I can tell very few buyers make the effort to find them. You will not identify these types of breeders by a website; websites are just like a TV ad trying to sell you something. If you want to really know a breeder; go visit their home, ask around about their reputation and previous pups. In other words, research a puppy just like you would any other long term purchase. As long as buyers continue to buy from breeders producing defective pups, they will continue to breed and sell. Stop whining about how hard it is to find them, make the effort, do the research, don't financially support those producing pups doomed to a lifetime of pain.PipedreamFarmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15689373141070251132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-56312848770819611272013-07-21T12:08:29.877+01:002013-07-21T12:08:29.877+01:00Sorry - incomplete post above.
particularly if yo...Sorry - incomplete post above.<br /><br />particularly if you are breeding with the health and temperament of the dog as a priority and not for the breed standard and appearance.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-90823744670687151152013-07-20T20:05:21.202+01:002013-07-20T20:05:21.202+01:00Anon 17:48
You miss the point.....or perhaps, I di...Anon 17:48<br />You miss the point.....or perhaps, I did not explain it very well. <br /><br />No living animal is immune from disease. A mutt stands a good chance of dieing of cancer when statistically speaking, cancer is the biggest killer of dogs. <br />We are never going to be able to breed dogs with an aim to obliterating disease....that would be unrealistic, clearly. Of course, the canine genome is extremely malleable, this we know to both our benefit and detriment to the dogs health unfortunately. The genome is the same for a village dog as it is for a purebred Pug. It's the expression or lack of and resulting turning on and off of specific genes and effects of the environment that results in the individual breeds. we have today. Therefore, focusing on pedigree is futile. Look at the bigger picture. Of course a cross breed may have a risk of inherited diseases if it inherits the alleles! So might a mutt! And so might a pedigree! It's the genetic lottery of sexual reproduction. But don't expect a puppy farmer who flogs his dogs to a pet store to have the health and welfare of his dogs at heart.<br /><br />However, when you introduce genetic diversity, you decrease the chances of autosomal recessive diseases, particularly if<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-78584367232723989812013-07-20T19:09:39.920+01:002013-07-20T19:09:39.920+01:00We are quite healthy actually with regard to inher...We are quite healthy actually with regard to inherited diseases. Westernisation has fuelled the vast majority of our health problems - cancer, obesity and the resulting diabetes and cardiovascular diseases not withstanding. <br /><br />Inherited autosomal recessive diseases such as thalassaemia are screened for in pre natal programs. X linked diseases such as Haemophilia are relatively rare etc. We tend to not have children with our cousins and siblings because we understand the implications on the likelihood of increasing risk of autosomal recessive diseases. Tribal societies where they keep it in the family can be rife with diseases, some known some unknown. I know that from professional experience. Why we have to keep justifying pedigree dog breeding is beyond me, really.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-90320925823871376022013-07-20T17:48:26.231+01:002013-07-20T17:48:26.231+01:00Anon 16:53
" For sure, if it IS a crossbreed...Anon 16:53<br /><br />" For sure, if it IS a crossbreed, genetically, it's bound to be a better bet from a health perspective because of genetic diversity"<br /><br />NO! it's NOT "bound to be a better bet"!! That's the sort of twaddle that fuels these conmen's scams; the oxygen for their lies! Have you never seen crossbreeds with appalling HD, or that have gone blind through hereditary cataracts, or have patellae luxating every few steps, or rely on anti-epileptic medication to prevent brain damage, or any of the other ailments that are hyped as the purlieu of pedigrees but affect crosses and mongrels as well? Very few genes, if any, are limited to pedigrees, and a crossbred puppy from carrier parnets, regardless of their background or 'genetic diversity' will suffer just as much.<br /><br />If 'genetic diversity' was a guarantee of good health, just think how healthy the most random-bred species on the planet (our own!) must be?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-16095437041914181232013-07-20T17:27:27.305+01:002013-07-20T17:27:27.305+01:00I also think that focusing on the academia and sci...I also think that focusing on the academia and science takes us away from the root cause - how do we help people change their practices when they don't actually want to change? It's the human psychology of change.<br />You can throw whatever you want at people with regard to evidence, education and ethics. But unless they have a mental shift or are motivated and rewarded to change, then why should they if they like breeding deformed dogs?<br /><br />What you are left with is then forcing people to change - enforce laws, regulations and ethics and monitor it - based on empiricism. Prosecute 'bad' breeders; puppy farmers etc. It's a punitive action, but that seems to be the societal norm. I prefer education, so why not get in at the grass root level in biology lessons at schools? Dissecting a frog never really helped me in life.....but understanding my pet dog's health and welfare needs would have both interested me and I'm sure a lot of other kids who have pets would benefit too. Mark Evans makes a good point when he mentions that because we are so familiar with the dog as a pet, we somehow think we understand it because of it's familiarity. Just because we are so familiar with Pugs and Pekes as a breed of dog, doesn't make it right either!<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-13677117887256089632013-07-20T17:05:22.753+01:002013-07-20T17:05:22.753+01:00Very eloquently put anon 16:07, and Pipedream - Je...Very eloquently put anon 16:07, and Pipedream - Jennifer read it and understand what dog lovers are sayingGeorginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-87617787011278677782013-07-20T16:53:44.032+01:002013-07-20T16:53:44.032+01:00Anon 16:07
while I agree I principle with your po...Anon 16:07<br /><br />while I agree I principle with your post, you are emphasising pedigree when it really isn't important in this regard. For sure, if it IS a crossbreed, genetically, it's bound to be a better bet from a health perspective because of genetic diversity. However, it's the temperament issues that are most worrying - dogs that grow up to be fearful, haven't learned how to interact properly with their own species because they have been taken form the bitch too early etc. that should be communicated to people. Less emphasis on pedigree, more on the science of breeding, behaviour and ethics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-75035659288989505432013-07-20T16:07:37.664+01:002013-07-20T16:07:37.664+01:00You're quite right. The number of morons who b...You're quite right. The number of morons who buy a puppy from a pet shop, or indeed from anywhere without having seen the puppy interacting with its mother, is just furthering puppy farms, and these are the puppies, often with false pedigrees, or no pedigree and sold under the "pedigrees are unhealthy so these crosses/designer oodles are all right" sales pitch who are likely to be unhealthy.<br /><br />Not all breeders who have the litter and the mother in the home are automatically 'good' breeders - they can be utterly appalling with puppies disadvantaged from the start - but NO good breeder would ever sell a puppy without meeting the potential buyer first, ergo ALL puppies from pet shops are from 'bad breeders'.<br /><br />And puppies in pet shops look 'cute'. Soft-hearted people buy them to 'rescue' them and another bitch in the suppliers' puppy farm is doomed to yet another litter to replace it. Nobody would spend hundreds of pounds on a car 'because it's a pretty colour and it was the last one left in the garage' so why are they so stupid about animals?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-22239317247116146882013-07-20T14:54:44.023+01:002013-07-20T14:54:44.023+01:00Buying a puppy as a pet when hundreds of perfectly...Buying a puppy as a pet when hundreds of perfectly healthy adult dogs are available to adopt from reputable shelters is immoral. <br /><br />Well, that's if you care about dogs as sentient beings and not stock.<br /><br />Unfortunately, lots of people in the dog world think differently about this. <br /><br />Principles and ethics founded on science and rational discussion should always prevail whenever we are trying to change anything. But when it comes to the reason we gravitate to having dogs in our life in the first place, for most people, it's because they love the animal. That understanding requires a level of emotional intelligence -it's about EQ and not IQ. How do we persuade and influence breeders that continuing to breed dogs within a paradigm of closed gene pools is going to destroy the animal they are supposed to love and care about and also destroy their source of income. The lack of common sense is the most worrying of all, because the information is out there. There is no information shortage about this! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-17169135792904851562013-07-20T11:23:26.587+01:002013-07-20T11:23:26.587+01:00You do realise what you have written Jennifer and ...You do realise what you have written Jennifer and the nonsense therein? To earn a living wage from dogs would entail ownership of at least 3 bitches and let's take a popular gundog breed as an example. Each litter would average 10 in number, each puppy would gross £500 that equals £5k gross/litter. To earn the Gvt stated living wage of £26k pa that would entail 5 litters per year. That means either each bitch is bred every other season (more probably ever season to keep costs to a minimum which is what running a business for gross profit requires) or there are more bitches kept on the property. That means that annually 50 puppies are produced from the same genetic pool for a number of years. Now most dog owners these days live in small homes with small gardens usually in a densely populated area (say a housing estate). To keep five dogs with at least one litter of puppies on "the go" at any one time takes up a huge amount of space, just their feed bowls, beds, dog food, waste would reduce the living space substantially. The garden is their toilet and that ground becomes saturated/contaminated with the urine alone in a very short space of time. If there are children in the family where do they play? The other considerations are a) the neighbours, b) the extra volume of traffic from puppy buyers in a constricted area, c) the smell and noise from the dogs, etc etc etc and worst of all the genetic effect on that one breed and of course the welfare of those particular bitches day in and day out. Because Jennifer if there are other households supporting their families, tax free, breeding dogs at this rate within a 50 mile radius of each other the impact on those breeds is huge thus your arrogant statement that they have an entitlement to do this is sickening. It is absolutely why the ped ds are in danger from scurrilous, ignorant, greedy people. I have not denegrated the responsible, kind, intelligent dog breeder ever and I agree that the dog world needs them and their experience in conjunction with a scientific approach to improve health issues. But our ancestors knew a thing or two, dog showing was an elite past time and because they were canny and wanted dogs bred for purpose as well as beauty when a litter was born two, three or more puppies were run on. And only those that proved themselves in the field and were good looking (less importantly) then a litter was bred from them. Breeding at the rate you suggest means that dogs are bred from far stoo young before any hidden problems are revealed at maturity. It is why there has to be a slow down, more dogs bred does not equate to healthier animals whether with or without scientific guidance. Leaving time for dogs to grow, reach maturity, assess their health issues and then breed on is more desirable, I would have thought. Time is the most important factor, not production and most definately not, ever, as a means of deriving a living wage from breeding dogs. I have vomitted up these words so many times I can understand how sick of me everyone is and perhaps from the higher echeleons of the Scientific Cloud where you hover perhaps the smell of the vomit may finally penetrate your brain and make you and yours realise that dogs are beings not squiggles on a chart, they are a fact and not a figure. If you are correct in your assessment of how to remedy the problems it is probably why there are 1000s of beautiful dogs either being destroyed or held in rescue kennels because there are insufficient homes to go around. Georginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-49356252164444118812013-07-19T16:27:53.970+01:002013-07-19T16:27:53.970+01:00Oh Boy Jennifer, brilliant, one cannot express a n...Oh Boy Jennifer, brilliant, one cannot express a non scientific opinion - great. I was unaware that we are living in a police state. Dogs are emotive, you are emotive, I am emotive. There are good dog breeders, but in this day and age, and the reason why I assume Pedigree Dogs Exposed was born, was because of the greed of the breeders who enacted injustice onto an innocent species? Your statement "If a breeder invests heavily in their dogs etc etc" is outrageous. If these people are running businesses then they better be paying all relevant taxes, meet all health and safety requirements, their local councils know they are running businesses from domestic premises, and that no welfare, rules, regulations, legal, council stipulations are being contravened. Dog showing and breeding is a hobby, like fishing, cricket, football. Do all of those pastimes create enjoyment but only because financial benefit is the main reason for participation, as you are suggesting for dog breeders. To make a living a wage goodness how many puppies do you think it is acceptable for them to breed and what is a living wage? According to recent information from the Government people who are on social benefits with a couple of children appear to receive £26,000 pa from the tax payer, me, you, JH everyone who works and supports the tax system. Your statements are preposterous, rude, inaccurate and I will say it again your attitude is inhuman. Like greedy dog breeders you are considering the dog, our dogs, my dogs, as stock, the only value in them being money generation, not because they are just lovely creatures to have in our lives. Your are quite correct my cries of "greed" are destructive, not for the people but for the dogs. You disgust me with your views and outlook on dogs, sadly you really do. If these people want a hobby that pays, rent an allotment and grow vegetable and sell those for money and leave dogs alone with those who love them.Georginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-20749963371474551662013-07-19T12:45:26.918+01:002013-07-19T12:45:26.918+01:00You're correct. However, finding a reputable b...You're correct. However, finding a reputable breeder is fiendishly difficult. Breeders can appear to be responsible when they're not. If I, as a puppy buyer, can look online to see what questions to ask the breeder and what kind of answers to expect, I'm certain any breeder can look online for the right answers! <br /><br />There are also those breeders who seem to be responsible, until a problem crops up in their lines, and then they either blame the owner for the illness, and/or bury their heads in the sand. <br /><br />You can't even be certain you're getting a purebred dog! If the breeder has registered a previous litter with the KC and registered more puppies than were born, that gives him/her extra pedigrees to slap on dogs of unknown parentage, but s/he wants to breed from. If you keep breeding back to a purebred dog, the offspring will eventually bear sufficient resemblance to that breed to fool most pet owners. I don't have an issue with outcrossing, but I do want it to be formally documented, to know when it's been done, why, and the health and temperament of the breeds involved!<br /><br />You also have no guarantee that the sire and dam on the pedigree are the real sire and dam! There is no mandatory DNA profiling to ascertain this. Currently, pedigrees comes with a disclaimer. <br /><br />Frannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-16293480174906071692013-07-18T14:17:28.332+01:002013-07-18T14:17:28.332+01:00It is also going to require education of puppy buy...It is also going to require education of puppy buyers to research where they buy puppies. As long as buyers are willing to fall for that cute cuddly puppy from a "bad" breeder; the "bad" breeders will continue to produce puppies. People seem to spend more time researching which phone to buy and which carrier than which breed of dog and the source of the dog.PipedreamFarmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15689373141070251132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-33640823331902616862013-07-18T13:31:28.689+01:002013-07-18T13:31:28.689+01:00When it comes to comments, better heartless than m...When it comes to comments, better heartless than mindless.<br />I hope, in future comments, you will take the time to back your statements with some evidence, and be a bit less prolific with emotive and judgmental language. <br />It's not just science that demands evidence . . . journalism, law, management, and any sort of rational decision making require credible sources. <br />If the dog world is to end out with pugs that can breathe and flatcoats that aren't doomed to early death from cancer, it will require that good breeders have scientifically correct information to make decisions. It is also going to require that good breeders produce MORE puppies, not fewer. It's also going to require educating more breeders so that they make the right decisions. Lambasting breeders as a class is counterproductive. The love of dogs, the show version of 'betterment' of breed", has gotten the pedigree world into the mess it's in. It will require rational, science-based understanding to begin to counter the health and temperaments problems found in many breeds. <br />Your cries of 'greed' are destructive. If a breeder invests heavily in their dogs, works many hours a week, and is producing healthy pups with good temperament, they deserve to make a living wage for the hours they put in and some return on capital. <br />CGE's mission is great, and the journal could potentially fill an important niche in righting problems with pedigree dog breeding. Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14389321571689128858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-45880005400502329562013-07-17T21:03:53.402+01:002013-07-17T21:03:53.402+01:00In the sense that moving towards utilising these s...In the sense that moving towards utilising these sort of prognostic tools before puppies are born may be a bit more sensible than waiting for the vet checks at Crufts. Prognostic as opposed to diagnostic allows better breeding decisions perhaps? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-82364062503720901172013-07-17T14:39:59.932+01:002013-07-17T14:39:59.932+01:00How do you mean?
Jemima
How do you mean?<br /><br />Jemima<br />Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-48163918304797660452013-07-17T14:17:21.460+01:002013-07-17T14:17:21.460+01:00Here is a good overview article on canine genetics...Here is a good overview article on canine genetics research.<br /><br />http://genome.cshlp.org/content/15/12/1706.fullPipedreamFarmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15689373141070251132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-48883887555661546632013-07-17T14:09:15.989+01:002013-07-17T14:09:15.989+01:00So is anyone lobbying the KC about this?
So is anyone lobbying the KC about this?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-75381326855197172532013-07-17T13:02:17.172+01:002013-07-17T13:02:17.172+01:00This excerpt from the MyDogDNA website is essentia...This excerpt from the MyDogDNA website is essentially what I was talking about on July 12 @ 16:43.<br /><br />"MyDogDNA provides also the next generation tool for breeders:<br />With MyDogDNA Breeder™ you can rank mating partners based on the genetic health of the offspring!<br />In addition to delivering to dog owners the widest possible genetic health information about their dogs, MyDogDNA is also a global dog database that provides breeders and Breed Clubs with up-to-date insight into the breed health. Each tested dog automatically grants its owner an access to a unique matchmaking tool MyDogDNA Breeder – designed to help breeders to search for breeding pairs that optimise the genetic health within breed and to network with other breeders nearby and across the world."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-42228240510248903892013-07-17T12:38:17.900+01:002013-07-17T12:38:17.900+01:00Aha... you're getting mixed up between two dif...Aha... you're getting mixed up between two different companies. DNA My Dog (US) is different to MyDogDNA (Finland). The MyDogDNA test is a much more comprehensive tests from Genoscoper - blog to come shortly. It looks at 10,000 markers. Or, to be more precise, this was the answer when I checked with Genoscoper:<br /><br />"...around 10,000 (this is mentioned for instance in our infographics) and these spread across the dog’s chromosome pairs." <br /><br />Jemima<br /><br />JemimaJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-1296860567018661462013-07-17T12:09:07.459+01:002013-07-17T12:09:07.459+01:00Jemima,
Where do you get 10,000? I don't see ...Jemima,<br />Where do you get 10,000? I don't see this info on their website. I did find this indicating my estimate less than 100 was incorrect.<br /><br />"At DNA My Dog, our laboratory uses over 500 data points while performing breed identification tests. Our testing accuracy is validated daily by performing repeated control tests on the same dogs to guarantee accuracy. Our database of validated breeds is kept at a size representative of approximately 97% of the mixed breed dog population. This ensures our database has the most relevant breeds. We don't test uncommon breeds or breeds not AKC registered. While having a large number of breeds is advantageous to a point, it may also lead to a greater possibility of inaccurate results."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-34390110668997664592013-07-17T11:55:08.310+01:002013-07-17T11:55:08.310+01:00Actually, Anon, MyDogDNA tests for around 10,000 m...Actually, Anon, MyDogDNA tests for around 10,000 markers - much more than the average "what is my dog breed" test.<br /><br />JemimaJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.com