tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post6213287263364923498..comments2024-03-20T17:32:35.238+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: More from the KC School of Trying To Look Good...Jemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-68189927678666533842010-12-02T01:06:08.771+00:002010-12-02T01:06:08.771+00:00Genetic diversity protects against disease by redu...Genetic diversity protects against disease by reducing the chance that a recessive disease gene will be matched by both parents. THAT is how you reduce health problems... you cannot remove disease genes by reducing genetic diversity, you only make it easier for new recessives to become matched up as the genes of the population become more and more similar. Inbreeding is a slow spiral into immune system failure and other problems, not a way to 'protect' health. You may be able to 'remove' a handful of health problems, but at the cost of introducing many more as the dogs become more and more closely related.<br /><br />THAT is the problem with inbreeding, and why the argument that outcrossing is worse for health than inbreeding is based on a fundamental ignorance of basic population genetics. Such ignorance was excusable 50+ years ago, but not today. Practices based on out of date belief systems need to be changed, not protected by people afraid of change.Paihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14108169893140762249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-40287704038083186072010-11-29T18:05:57.942+00:002010-11-29T18:05:57.942+00:00So... you are not able to provide any evidence tha...So... you are not able to provide any evidence that inbreeding is the norm in the wild, choosing instead to change the subject. <br /><br />That Galapagos turtles are also being impacted by man is a separate issue. <br /><br />"If you look back on the history of most breeds of dogs you will see that for every benefit it had been thought a cross has brought in, even more damage has been caused by an extra problem, which with the DNA test now available can confirm"<br /><br />Want to supply some solid examples/references of the above? And not least because outcrosses are hardly commonplace, at least within the KC-registered population.<br /><br />As for Labradoodle... Bad breeding is bad breeding, whoever is doing it. There are some bad breeders of labradoodles, to be sure - but there are good ones too; just the same as in the mainstream purebred population. <br /><br />And I think you should have a bit of a think about why a repeat mating might be considered bad for a breed - and then consider whether the same criteria applies to a crossbreed mating. I think you'll find it doesn't.Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-70413013542432192472010-11-29T16:30:02.351+00:002010-11-29T16:30:02.351+00:00"Those Galapagos turtles are doomed if there&..."Those Galapagos turtles are doomed if there's a change in their environment" odd the how they are one of the longest living animals on the planet and its only the intervention of man that has caused them any threat. If you look back on the history of most breeds of dogs you will see that for every benefit it had been thought a cross has brought in, even more damage has been caused by an extra problem, which with the DNA test now available can confirm. I bet that in 10 years time the Labradoodle will be recorded as being one of the wrost health records going, bred with few or any health teat , no knowledge of the ancestor (be that health or temprement), bred ONLY for looks (as they served no purpose), sold by those with no knowledge of dogs yet an eye for quick profit based on media, and with no direction after the 2nd or theird generation cross, afterall any good breeder will tell you a repeat mating is the wrong direction for a breed, and that what are based on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-61318157842616451092010-11-29T10:38:37.344+00:002010-11-29T10:38:37.344+00:00So now anon you are dismissing research done by th...So now anon you are dismissing research done by the National Science agency, a United States Government agency?<br />Try this link. It also has a basic picture to explain<br /><br />http://www.nsf.gov/news/mmg/mmg_disp.cfm?med_id=57267&from=mn<br /><br />Alternatively, have a read of this;<br /><br />http://breedinginquiry.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/final-dog-inquiry-120110.pdfKate Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12984661154425549615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-8359991879225314002010-11-28T21:50:46.323+00:002010-11-28T21:50:46.323+00:00Good try. But if you had done more than copy and p...Good try. But if you had done more than copy and paste a bit from Wikipedia, you would have found that this has been at a cost to the turtles who have very little genetic variation. Here's a reference: rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/271/1537/341.full.pdf<br /><br />There are, indeed, many examples of small, isolated populations that have had no option but to inbreed and which survive. (It is rarely without cost though.) However, what I asked for is a reference that showed that inbreeding is THE NORM - through choice, rather than because there's no option. <br /><br />This isn't "disagreeing" with you, Anon. It isn't my opinion that nature in the main avoids inbreeding. It's fact. And yet here you are clinging to your beliefs without doing anyone the courtesy of actually learning just a little bit about genetics, natural selection or evolution. Without genetic diversity (which is what happens when you inbreed), there is no evolution. Those Galapagos turtles are doomed if there's a change in their environment - there's no variation which would allow them to adapt. Same goes for cheetahs - so genetically similar that cat flu could wipe out an entire population. Indeed, if we were all as genetically similar as cheetahs, the Black Death wouldn't just have killed millions - it could have wiped humans off the face of the earth. As it was, some people didn't get it even when exposed and others got it but didn't die. That is genetic variation at work. You owe your very existence to it.Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-75369431698095372010-11-28T20:54:42.530+00:002010-11-28T20:54:42.530+00:00All subspecies of Galápagos tortoise evolved from ...All subspecies of Galápagos tortoise evolved from a common ancestor that arrived from mainland South America by overwater dispersal of a pregnant female or a breeding pair, so unless in your colourful way of speaking it "Shagged itself" its off spring must of mated to each other and even back to the mother to form the species!! The fact you belittle and show no respect t others who might disagree with shows why you are no longer a viable journalist (and why there is no broadcaster will commission you again about pedigree dogs)and not a credible person due to your pre judged views.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-58307133537844839102010-11-28T19:31:38.151+00:002010-11-28T19:31:38.151+00:00I have allowed the last comment through to make th...I have allowed the last comment through to make the following point: if anyone wants to post here that the earth is flat and that the sun orbits the earth not the other way round, I will expect them to furnish the evidence. And when I say evidence, I mean proper references, not just a paragraph pasted and copied from the Journal for Stupid Dog Breeders.<br /><br />So there you are anon: a challenge. Try and find me some scientific references that prove that "Mother Nature" shags her sons - or that it is THE NORM for species to inbreed, not the other way round. Hell, just find me one.<br /><br />Some hints: try googling "genetic diversity" or "inbreeding avoidance".Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-68658541733284097932010-11-28T18:48:52.074+00:002010-11-28T18:48:52.074+00:00"Please at least try doing some research befo..."Please at least try doing some research before posting this kind of palpable nonsense." the same could be said about most of your artocles, broadcast and blogs, as Ofcom and the others proved, but do you have actuual proof that wild animals do not mate in this way? Plants by their very nature reproduce, by sourcing themselves, and its only when one plots a family line/pedigree does the term inbreeding get used, as up to that point no one has any idea of ancestors, as for Kate Price basing idea on petunias and reading information across it sounds as in most things she is away with the faries!!! even PDE never tried such a stupid link..............and did stoop low in many of them!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-24852536279474524852010-11-28T12:29:08.372+00:002010-11-28T12:29:08.372+00:00Even plants know to avoid inbreeding, and they do ...Even plants know to avoid inbreeding, and they do not have brains....<br />http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-Petunias-Avoid-Inbreeding-164930.shtmlKate Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12984661154425549615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-2345099740611019922010-11-28T11:17:44.548+00:002010-11-28T11:17:44.548+00:00Please at least try doing some research before pos...Please at least try doing some research before posting this kind of palpable nonsense.Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-72127887661431397932010-11-28T10:43:24.726+00:002010-11-28T10:43:24.726+00:00"Although it is true that the domestic dog (a..."Although it is true that the domestic dog (although not all) have lost the ability to discriminate against close kin, Mother Nature in the main avoids inbreeding - and certainly the dog's ancestor, the wolf, practices inbreeding avoidance" just what proof do you have to back up this claim? Mother nature by its very virtue has NO CONTROL over who or what mates together in the same species, it is indeed the very reason why the origin of species was formed as animals of the same variation (which would normally be the same line/strain) mated together as they had an advantage due to some physical or mental difference to the norm of their species in the area they lived, and so for the start would be inbreed, after all humans can be traced to the same family in Africa. As for Wolves they live in dominate society controlled by Alpha female as to who can breed, when she is overtaken it is by her daughter and so the gene pool again is restricted and inbred.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-30104648112063127312010-11-27T22:56:12.573+00:002010-11-27T22:56:12.573+00:00I do not agree with inbreeding.
In the wild, if th...I do not agree with inbreeding.<br />In the wild, if this occurs, the effects are increased likelyhood of genetic disease, smaller numbers of offspring, weaker offspring. offspring that live shorter lives. I guess thats mother natures way of saying if you do it those are the consequences. It's called survival of the fittest.Kate Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12984661154425549615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-21220380591376783512010-11-27T19:37:12.664+00:002010-11-27T19:37:12.664+00:00Presuming that was supposed to be "let a bitc...Presuming that was supposed to be "let a bitch be mated time and time again, be it to her brother, father or son"..? Although it is true that the domestic dog (although not all) have lost the ability to discriminate against close kin, Mother Nature in the main avoids inbreeding - and certainly the dog's ancestor, the wolf, practices inbreeding avoidance (unless they have no choice because of geography or very isolated populations).Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-65351341154831863022010-11-27T18:10:23.169+00:002010-11-27T18:10:23.169+00:00Mother nature would le a botch be mated time and t...Mother nature would le a botch be mated time and time again be it to her brother, father or son, so do you approve of that too Ms Price?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-15800767255388463572010-11-26T21:23:01.532+00:002010-11-26T21:23:01.532+00:00In replt to Anonymous at 16:43.
Give the KC more ...In replt to Anonymous at 16:43.<br /><br />Give the KC more power? Let them be the only governing body for dogs?<br />The thought sends shivers down the spine.<br /><br />It is ludicrous to argue that the Kennel Club needs more power to make things happen faster.<br /> <br />They have been a monopoly for a hundred years. They alone are responsible for not taking action years ago when the problems of closed stud books, inbreeding, loss of genetic diversity and stupid unfeeling people breeding for extreme traits became apparent.Margaret Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-13303561120788313042010-11-26T06:57:34.206+00:002010-11-26T06:57:34.206+00:00No, I fail to understand the clause.
Is it mother ...No, I fail to understand the clause.<br />Is it mother nature to allow a bitch to go through two c-sections, let alone 3?Kate Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12984661154425549615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-81478620848306083032010-11-26T00:43:23.356+00:002010-11-26T00:43:23.356+00:00"If there are people who care so little for t..."If there are people who care so little for their dogs that they would prefer to leave the Kennel Club rather than refrain from breeding a third time from one of their bitches, surely they would be better outside the KC than masquerading as reputable dog breeders?"<br />Margaret that is a lucicrous thing to say if the kennel club had more power they would be able to make things happen much quicker, there are way to many people without the knowledge breeding attitudes need to change and this nonense from you jemima is not helping you are just going to bore people with your ranty sensationlism when you think about this blog should be buzzing - buts it not! it is the people who dont care that cause these problems - let the KC be the only governing body for dogs!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-20535889019447543442010-11-25T23:45:30.955+00:002010-11-25T23:45:30.955+00:00Kate Price seems to fail to recognise the clause t...Kate Price seems to fail to recognise the clause that ""...except for scientifically proven welfare reasons and in such cases normally provided that the application is made prior to mating." would only have been put there because the KC, Vets and everyone (even the self appointed "experts" on here) do not know just what the future or science will have and how that might benefit dogs, is it not better to allow for such changes at the start than be too rigid and controlled in its thinking as many here would seem to have want it. Most other rules and restrictions have already have such clauses in them, are they abused? if you have proof say so! or perhaps you are not aware of the strict process and information that must be given (by independent vets and experts) for those wanting and exception to the rule to be granted, and just how very few are applied for and even less granted. But like scab pickers on here they would rather pick, pick, pick and as where mother nature provides the scab to protect from risk of secondary infection they appear to take pleasure in infecting the good work just to make a mark for them selves........ or scar the good work of others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-78518122364448188422010-11-25T18:12:19.996+00:002010-11-25T18:12:19.996+00:00Anon last post, 25th Nov 08.56
scabs normally occu...Anon last post, 25th Nov 08.56<br />scabs normally occur in response to a problem. If the problem (wound/ kennel club policy) does not clear up due to secondary infection (unclear definitions/caveat) which could potentially lead to further wound break down and problems, then yes, the scab and wound needs cleaning up and addressing.Kate Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12984661154425549615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-89805845723092290792010-11-25T16:56:23.338+00:002010-11-25T16:56:23.338+00:00I dread to think what you must be like with a scab...I dread to think what you must be like with a scab on a cut, pick, pick , pick never letting it heal but always at it with no reason but to make a mess of it when there was no need other than to get you noticedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-47806450643861536142010-11-24T18:08:06.722+00:002010-11-24T18:08:06.722+00:00Caesarians aren't simply a matter of shape, bu...Caesarians aren't simply a matter of shape, but that's not really the point - if the bitch had uterine inertia or a tendency to produce single, over-sized puppies she'd be just as dead without medical help.<br /><br />The whole argument for pedigree breeding is that the breeders are selecting "better" dogs, so why is it so difficult to say that a bitch who needs a caesarian (or who has eclampsia or any other abnormal conditions) shouldn't be selected for future breeding?<br /><br />I can see that with the breeds with 80% caesarian rates there might be a need to have <i>some</i> litters from the bitches who can't give birth naturally in order to avoid reducing the gene pool still further, but 2 caesarians is surely plenty.cambstreasurerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07757408851026721272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-39459835556508767092010-11-24T16:42:36.917+00:002010-11-24T16:42:36.917+00:00Of course it is not only brachycephalic breeds tha...Of course it is not only brachycephalic breeds that need sections, any bitch that has had two C-sections obviously has reproductive problems and should not be put in whelp.<br /><br />If there are people who care so little for their dogs that they would prefer to leave the Kennel Club rather than refrain from breeding a third time from one of their bitches, surely they would be better outside the KC than masquerading as reputable dog breeders?Margaret Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-53170980314943840682010-11-24T13:32:39.555+00:002010-11-24T13:32:39.555+00:00But this argument has now been used by the KC for ...But this argument has now been used by the KC for half a century now. Many breeds have got worse in that time, not better. The softly-softly approach has not worked.Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-51956310306604977922010-11-24T13:05:44.222+00:002010-11-24T13:05:44.222+00:00your passion for this is ore inspiring, if you had...your passion for this is ore inspiring, if you had worked with the KC and Show People instead of against them you could have achieved so much, if the KC blanket bans registering puppies from Ceasarians, what would stop bulldog clubs and the like starting theyre own registries, holding theyre own conformation shows........nothing! the KC have no statutory powers so theyre approach maybe softly softly catchy monkey. could you imagine if breeders of extreme type dogs had NO ONE to answer to?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-28485140404081435932010-11-24T13:00:05.909+00:002010-11-24T13:00:05.909+00:00Well I thought I did..
You're right, it isn...Well I thought I did.. <br /><br />You're right, it isn't just brachy breeds that need sections and I understand that one-sized rules don't fit everyone hence the the need for a little wiggle room, just not as much as the KC seems to be proposing.Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.com