tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post3645212289091432191..comments2024-03-20T17:32:35.238+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: REVEALED: the GSD at Crufts that looked GREAT!Jemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-83255901930271297682018-01-31T17:20:19.549+00:002018-01-31T17:20:19.549+00:00At least German GSDs have protection drive. Our be...At least German GSDs have protection drive. Our bendy-legged American dogs would lick the face of a burglar wielding a machete. One of the most beautiful dogs I have ever seen was a German-bred showline German shepherd with a fine, straight back and JUST the right angulation. If you got attacked by a bigfoot, he would take it's arm off!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-72366529112618999832017-01-09T13:33:32.594+00:002017-01-09T13:33:32.594+00:00Super Trouper at Brightmeadow, strung up & sta...Super Trouper at Brightmeadow, strung up & stacked into position, totalky against current KC requirements for the breed, done to hide structual faults amoungst other things.<br />Sadly I was at Crufts shen the Kenmils bitch was shown. Typucatl of her breeding a highly strung fearful bitch totally unsuitable for working stock (& not hunting to survive in Africa) & yes I do know a lot about this breed, having owned them for over 50 years, all directly from GERMAN working dogs with no UK dogs in their make up. All 150% temperament & character & physically & MENTALLY sound, if shown they also did well.<br />Jemima has yet to apologise for inferring in her first program that dogs that were in fact NOT KC registered were in fact not & not related to the KC dogs shown at all. She even inferred that the GERMAN GSDs were related to the puppy GSD she showed. <br />She did nit show the two varieties of Irish Setters, whose breeders have bred out 2 genetic conditions, because successful breeding doesn't make good TVKeewee2010https://www.blogger.com/profile/16495294822357014038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-23045566884189794222016-03-22T02:51:08.004+00:002016-03-22T02:51:08.004+00:00Defining an intentional deformity in it's extr...Defining an intentional deformity in it's extreme manifestation that negatively affects the welfare of a dog is not difficult. The basics animals have a "right" to. To be able to breath, move and live a normal healthy life, unhindered by breeder selection for the opposite....<br /><br />"Extremist's" don't enter the picture, the science is too precise. In the very few areas where this is not the case other constructs would be needed until a time they are.<br /><br />Antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14041212020431214852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-67358189421208075742016-03-21T23:52:52.863+00:002016-03-21T23:52:52.863+00:00If they want some sound (not bent/deformed) GSD...If they want some sound (not bent/deformed) GSD's to aid their study my brother has several, 2 of which have earned placings at Crufts! I'm sure he wouldn't mind assisting.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04691482292335403831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-27776061422937938312016-03-21T23:49:52.897+00:002016-03-21T23:49:52.897+00:00The 3 point stack only serves to lower the rear en...The 3 point stack only serves to lower the rear end while standing. If the back is bent/curved, like in the majority of the 'germanic' type dogs, then the 3 point stack accentuates this but is not the cause of the bend. There are GSDs out there with straight backs that when stacked maintain a straight (not level) topline to the croup. Those are the dogs that are NOT rewarded in conformation shows!!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04691482292335403831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-38555610499163640162016-03-21T23:30:05.256+00:002016-03-21T23:30:05.256+00:00At least the bitch who went BOB wasn't moving ...At least the bitch who went BOB wasn't moving on the top of her front feet like this bitch who went winners at Westminster in New York this year. http://infocus3584.zenfolio.com/p100740531/h6d3050c6#h607fdd1a<br />Ironic that the owner of this bitch has a post out trashing the breed...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-41229590037602116902016-03-21T05:21:17.554+00:002016-03-21T05:21:17.554+00:00"Why should breeders be breeding dogs within ..."Why should breeders be breeding dogs within gene pools that are rife with problems that are polygenic?"<br /><br />My choice of examples of health problems that are polygenic and rife withing a breed was deliberate. If you want to ban breeding dogs from within gene pools that are rife with problems that cause suffering and are polygenic, then you can say goodbye to working German Shepherds and Belgian Shepherds - the working lines suffer from dysplasia and epilepsy respectively, just as their showline counterparts do. <br /><br />If you are OK with that, then you are at least consistent.<br /><br />Your comparison to a building permit does not hold - buildings do not feel pain and disturbance caused by building work is temporary.<br /><br />Should some breeds be banned on the grounds of welfare? Well, there are some breeds that we'd all consider a good place to start - that's the easy part - but where would you stop? <br /><br />Which brings me back to my first questions, upon which all else follows and which you have avoided:<br /><br />Define "deformity" and then define the point at which it compromises welfare. Do this in such a way that extremists could not use the law to harass good breeders too.<br /><br /> Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-9865344086012824592016-03-21T02:13:25.014+00:002016-03-21T02:13:25.014+00:00This is what I mean, there is controversy and divi...This is what I mean, there is controversy and division within that block of die hards already, its not difficult to tweak a reaction as Jemima has proved a few times already.<br /><br />They're not as secure or as powerfully unified as many think. This has been the situation for a great deal of years too.<br /><br />They think nothing of throwing each other under the bus as a result.<br /><br />Divide and rule how about that as a plan, always taking the ideal one step further towards normal. <br /><br />Lets face it anyone going in the opposite direction isn't going to even have a dog for much longer, not one that wont have to literally drag its hind end along the ground like dead appendages. The exaggeration has already reached point of destruction, and as we know to win you have to go that extra bit....<br /><br />The point of complete breakdown in the breed at the top level in showing has to be wafer thin already.Antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14041212020431214852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-77415578503518227932016-03-20T13:47:17.161+00:002016-03-20T13:47:17.161+00:00I admit I'm no expert on dog conformation, but...I admit I'm no expert on dog conformation, but I've owned and loved GSDs for over 40 years and find some of these pictures and videos sickening.<br /><br />The main thing that strikes me about these dogs is the strange 'flexibility' for the want of a better word of their rear - is 'pasterns' the word? or 'metatarsals'? Whichever is the correct term, it's the part equivalent on a human to the foot, the toes are the part that bend, the rest up to the hock/heel should be the springy shock absorber, but on these dogs it's bending and weight bearing in the most peculiar way. I've been studying all these photos and videos and watching our walking pack of various breeds all week and not one of our dogs has this conformation. Feeling our dogs toes/feet/hocks/ there is no way that part of the rear limb bends in any fashion at all. <br /><br />I've heard all the excuses, scared, tired, panic stricken dogs, not enough ring space, too many crowds etc. which only proves to me that the dogs are secondary to the human in these shows, but this problem is also obvious in still photographs on breeder's own websites - surely the dog at it's best. <br /><br />However I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that these dogs are suffering doubly by the human hand. On one side there is the selective breeding for this conformation and on the other is the training these dogs go through from a very, very young age, I've seen the puppy handling pictures, they scared me to death, doing that when bones are soft and unformed is surely wrong and it's this unbelievable attitude to the puppies that might be a huge factor in the weakness of these show line dogs. Dogs don't stand like that unless trained, their knees are permanently bent, their rear ends always crouched and then the trainers are somehow making them RUN in this position.<br /><br />Could anyone enlighten me how these dogs are trained to do this? I've learnt so much from here but I'm still not sure how you'd start to get a dog to run in this fashion.<br /><br /> The why is obvious, a human being has decreed it so, but I would also like to know the process and from anyone with knowledge of dog anatomy if it is possible the legs become seriously weakened and maybe permanently damaged by this training, or if it's reversible - anyone know of any photos of 8 or 9 year old show dogs that had this stance and gait in the ring?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-19379112174268497332016-03-20T11:40:37.044+00:002016-03-20T11:40:37.044+00:00Are you aware of this campaign? http://www.thealsa...Are you aware of this campaign? http://www.thealsatian.co.uk/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-53457898987427659802016-03-20T09:02:20.370+00:002016-03-20T09:02:20.370+00:00Forget the stack and look at the movement.
Forget the stack and look at the movement.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-64052353851513160032016-03-20T06:03:25.258+00:002016-03-20T06:03:25.258+00:00I've just read some of his nonsense, and yes i...I've just read some of his nonsense, and yes it looks like his Crufts entry is gone and Im not surprised.<br /><br />I mean honestly does a perfectly functional, excellent working Border Collie rounding up sheep in the hills need to be built like a car smash?!!! Does it need to fling its front legs in the air like its drowning and wobble pathetically on its crumpled up hinds to keep trotting all day.....no absolutely not, that would just make it impossible to do it's job at all and predispose it to early injury and wear and tear, even as a pet.<br /><br />People like Mr Donald seem to think this is exactly what GSDs should be doing, even his moderately deformed dogs are not in the slightest bit desirable to anyone except the show ring. Anything normal is considered weak, everything on the side of abnormal is considered strong except for the extreme which should really just be put down??! What kind of rubbish is this when the starting point is already a deformity? He takes pains and reams, in fact years of blog entry, diagram and observation to try and make the case that abnormal is on the good side of a travesty.<br /><br />Maybe the GSD League Mafia spammed his blog entry into smithereens for daring to criticise the achievements of one of their own in such a public manner!<br /><br />Antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14041212020431214852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-5971259548497568602016-03-20T05:24:25.959+00:002016-03-20T05:24:25.959+00:00Ooops, breeding for movement alone is a terrible i...Ooops, breeding for movement alone is a terrible idea anyway!Antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14041212020431214852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-52819935505354804132016-03-20T05:12:50.193+00:002016-03-20T05:12:50.193+00:00And it's a very good start.
Why should breed...And it's a very good start. <br /><br />Why should breeders be breeding dogs within gene pools that are rife with problems that are polygenic? <br /><br />Should some breeds just be banned on grounds of welfare?<br /><br />Should permission or even license be needed to correct others depending on the extent and duration of or just simply the consequences of that effort on welfare? <br /><br />No different to applying for an extension on your house.<br /><br />Should we all be able to build five story basments under our villa's? Maybe not depends on the disturbance it would cause the neighbourhood, right? <br /><br />It could be a new branch of law, sure you could contribute a lot?<br /><br />Antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14041212020431214852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-48064377694392420332016-03-20T04:52:48.400+00:002016-03-20T04:52:48.400+00:00That's complete and utter nonsense.That's complete and utter nonsense.Antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14041212020431214852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-91917450116052355262016-03-20T03:49:22.989+00:002016-03-20T03:49:22.989+00:00The K.Cs interrupt the messages from species to en...The K.Cs interrupt the messages from species to environment.<br /><br />The purpose for dogs is no longer driven by the values we find to build on that purpose. The values of an organization are deemed more important than the purpose they support. They no longer support the purpose,(dogs) but become a purpose in themselves( a pedigree).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-63832044862125395922016-03-20T03:41:13.967+00:002016-03-20T03:41:13.967+00:00The K.Cs interrupt the messages sent from species ...The K.Cs interrupt the messages sent from species to environment. The Purpose for dogs no longer drives the values found to achieve that purpose. <br /><br />The values held by a single organization are held to be of more value than the purpose itself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-73847369370157368442016-03-20T01:09:48.494+00:002016-03-20T01:09:48.494+00:00Sara is right about knock on effects. It would be...Sara is right about knock on effects. It would be US shrinking the environment able to hold dogs in an attempt to make it less favorable for those values held and promoted by the K.Cs. that we as the environment for dogs, reject.<br /><br /> Consumers here DO NOT have the power to bring the type of change we want as long as the K.Cs are an environment unto themselves. They don't meet our demands- Instead they demand we accept their values. <br /> There is no such thing as value with out purpose.DOGS have purpose to Man. We are the environment that supports them.<br /> The pedigree has value for the purpose of improving dogs. It does have value TO that purpose. <br /> But when the Pedigree itself becomes the value, instead of dogs ( as has been ruled in too many of the K.Cs constitutions) Dogs loose purpose.<br /> Purpose is replaced by the pedigree- It represents purpose and takes its place. <br /><br /> You have environment.You have a species.<br /> Which responds according to environmental demands.<br /><br /> The correct response to gain favor and thrive in an evolutionary context is to demonstrate value. <br />In this case, to Man. Values worth emulating by Man to more effectively achieve his purpose. DOGS that bring value through their purpose to us.<br /> The value is in that purpose. Not the pedigree. Its just a tool. The K.Cs have elevated the tool to a purpose in itself. <br /><br />There will be mathematical formula that demonstrates the interaction of purpose, environment and response for maximum efficiency and viability.<br />Until that ruling against the environment is removed from a K.Cs constitution the best we can do will be to shrink the environment able to support dogs.<br /><br />The only other alternative that will work effectively is a whole new registry for the promotion of purpose and value for dogs in their natural environment(s) as a directive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-71226822511193934782016-03-20T00:27:24.076+00:002016-03-20T00:27:24.076+00:00The science is here. Its getting people to underst...The science is here. Its getting people to understand it that is the problem. And not just by pedigree breeders.<br /><br />The likes of Hendrik Gommer, Steven Hawkings and others have pointed the way. Biophysics can and does show this K.C model is not viable and can not work. It is counter to evolutionary science.<br /><br /> Our genetic makeup guides our responses as a species. <br /> A constitution creates a culture and sets its direction. The rules of a constitution guide that culture on HOW the direction is to be achieved.<br /><br />Any K.C that has ruled it members may not breed a dog ineligible for registration has ruled against its environment. <br /> It will not accept environmental influence, and will strive to keep any values within that org.<br /> It is an environment unto itself. It does not recognize the environment that supports it, only its own jurisdiction or sub environment is deemed to holds any value.<br /> It has written a cultural program, That acts just like a genetic program for a species. A species that does not recognize its environment.... Its well understood what that does to an organism, or cells. The same is happening to the domestic dog as a species.<br /> Any awareness we can generate in the GENERAL dog owning public will have little effect, or only detrimental effect. As long as this rule stands any attempts to correct the problems can only come at the expense of the environment. Reducing the environment able to respond to dogs.Thru legislation, censure etc.<br /><br /> Weather man is involved or not, the evolution of a species is directed by environmental demand, and how a species is able to respond to that.<br /> Man IS the natural environment for domestic dogs as a species- environment is not simply geography.<br /> Environment is the space you occupy, made up of all it contains. <br /> How a species responds to what is contained within that environment helps to shape that space, to make it healthy and supportive of the species by demonstrating values worth emulating.<br /><br /> Any K.Cs that have ruled against their members breeding outside of their own protocols have ruled against their environment and will not recognize it as long as that rule stands. Any attempt to correct problems will come by shrinking of the environment, rather than by recognition of its demands.<br /><br /> WE, collectively, are the natural environment for dogs. The K.Cs refuse to recognize this and have hijacked the species.Only a change in the rule that would allow K.C members to cross breed OUTSIDE of the K.C protocols can reverse this situation. <br /> Its imperative that Hendrik Gommers Thesis IS looked at in the context of the K.Cs rules by a qualified physicist with basic biological training because the implications do reach much further than pedigree dogs when you can see how his theories are so completely borne out by what is happening and how.<br /><br /> Its inarguable, I believe. But getting people to understand it is too hard for me. But I have done it. Others can. We need Steven Hawkings here!<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-90725285206973072212016-03-19T15:50:37.996+00:002016-03-19T15:50:37.996+00:00Interesting place to see the reinforcing of the cr...Interesting place to see the reinforcing of the crippled GSD type you saw winning at CRUFTS is on the Royal Canin (MAXI)Large Adult dog food bag. Don't Royal Canin sponsor stuff that the KC do. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-57892159916601142762016-03-19T11:48:25.051+00:002016-03-19T11:48:25.051+00:00Unfortunately, it looks like the GSDs here in Aust...Unfortunately, it looks like the GSDs here in Australia aren't faring any better.<br /><br />https://www.facebook.com/GrundelhardtKennels/photos/pb.310273079090956.-2207520000.1458388019./379658118819118/?type=3&theaterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-85972328792963694762016-03-18T22:24:03.125+00:002016-03-18T22:24:03.125+00:00Looks like Mr Donald's been silenced. His Cruf...Looks like Mr Donald's been silenced. His Crufts article has disappeared. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-20661423829383889832016-03-18T21:37:19.919+00:002016-03-18T21:37:19.919+00:00I think the problem has stemmed from the split sta...I think the problem has stemmed from the split stance stack GSD's are shown in - very different from other breeds. Even way back when, they were shown in a split stance to accentuate thier 'alertness' and ready to spring into action. Let's get them showing in the same stance as the majority of other breeds and see how bizarre they look.elsiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12295206718139060834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-54020021556940065352016-03-18T20:27:32.927+00:002016-03-18T20:27:32.927+00:00I have updated above, Ian, to include a bit more a...I have updated above, Ian, to include a bit more about the GSD conformation study just starting at the University of Surrey. This has, I think, some potential in helping to nail what impact (if any) the shape has on health - something that's badly needed. It's going to be a while before it reports but should be useful. Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-39866023918179400362016-03-18T20:21:37.196+00:002016-03-18T20:21:37.196+00:00I have part of a plan.........
It starts with the...I have part of a plan.........<br /><br />It starts with the KC disowning (or whatever they need to do) the GSD League that they appointed to train the judges. And whichever body authorises a judge as suitable to judge GSDs too. The KC themselves must become responsible for training and appointing judges to this breed. This follows on from Nick Blayneys comment that the judges are ignoring the very problems highlighted in BreedWatch. That 'should' remove the issue of the very poor examples of the breed being rewarded in KC shows.<br /><br />But this drives the 'Germanic' owners/breeders into purely non-KC showing where they will still be rewarded for breeding the very dogs that are the heart of the problem.<br /><br />So now the KC/AHT/whoever have to step up to the plate, invest whatever is required, and produce clear clinical evidence that the 'Germanic' type dogs, with their bent spine/plantigrade & weak rear legs/turned out hocks etc. are inherently not 'Fit For Purpose'. Then the evidence must be presented to the WUSV. If they do not change their beliefs then I cannot see what more can be done apart from actual legislation.<br /><br />Lastly, the KC should take the opportunity to not blindly register puppies in this breed. It must process all registrations via an independent panel that will assess at least 2 previous generations for conformity to what is believed to be a 'sound' dog before accepting the registration. <br /><br />Of course, the likelihood of this happening is close to zero but at least it's part of a plan. Anyone up for lobbying for this to actually happen??? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04691482292335403831noreply@blogger.com