tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post287140848671446245..comments2024-03-17T08:06:06.686+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: AKC PR offensive - good luck with that...Jemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger138125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-44528906569779188652013-10-01T02:48:19.146+01:002013-10-01T02:48:19.146+01:00bestuvall,
Are you honestly saying you're loo...bestuvall,<br /><br />Are you honestly saying you're looking at the health issues of GS, poodles, springers, dobies, collies (traditional not border) pugs, bull dogs and you don't see how breeding to a cosmetic standard has endangered the health of all of these breeds.<br /><br />And that's not considering the deafness, skin issues, gastrointestinal issues that keep coming up in some lines of these breeds.<br /><br />I with anon - breeding dogs for working ability & temperament led to better dogs and healthier dogs. bridget54https://www.blogger.com/profile/07161910074538131084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-87504856242947453862013-09-26T15:30:03.391+01:002013-09-26T15:30:03.391+01:00No actually its based on real world experience and...No actually its based on real world experience and knowing or interacted with people in key places in the hierarchy of the Parent Clubs and The AKC. You can say all you want,but in the end the power in final decisions is where the funding sources come from. And that's not coming from within the AKC. If you want to use the AKC for leverage then its primarily about the status that the papers provide for the breeder. For the Breed clubs its recognition in the public arena as being a part of a long established prestigious registry. If the Parent Breed clubs decided tomorrow that some standards require changes and that even with what is in place at the AKC they can decide to either go with it or overule it....Its after all the Parent clubs that set the standards. The AKC has guidelines to be met for recognition and very small amounts of arbitration with regards to matters of registration. <br /><br />Been there and done that and that's how I know. If it comes down to legal and contractual matters in the end the AKC does nothing and refers you to the Parent breed clubs and to seek legal assistance. <br /><br />As far as Matters of registration...its only what they have in Black and white in their own bylaws. And outside of that you're deal with parent clubs. You can only get so far with arguing the AKC's own documentation with them, especially when there are areas where the language which is based on matters of ownership and registration that has loopholes you can technically flip back on them....At which point it then becomes a legal matter and they will not speak to you except to repeat their policies regarding matters of registration and ownership. Nothing more.<br /><br />Then its up to you to argue with the parent club and that's another can of worms since this is where the "clicks" of who you know come in, and any relative newcomer is not going to get a foot in among them unless you play by their rules. The AKC is nothing like the KC. The AKC registry is a tool used by the Parent Clubs... not the other way around. And the way tools work...if they don't do want you want.....you find another tool.<br /><br />If a Parent club in the USA does not want to accept ...let's say the LUA dalmations as a new established line. Then it ain't gonna happen. If the AKC says we're gonna acknowledge them anyway...Then you can be damn sure if the parent club wanted to, they would rewrite the standards or find some way to segregate the differences between LUA's and Established Dals within their own studbooks and devalue the LUA's in the public eye. But, the public already knows that the value of an LUA Dal is far more beneficial due to the amount of exposure and education that has been available on this topic.. <br /><br />There's been so much exposure to this that's its public pressure ...Worldwide. That brought the hammer down on it... If those parent club's want to keep producing Dal's and selling them.... they needed to cave to that pressure. Or wake up and see the logic behind the science. <br /><br />Or you could have just sat idly by and watched the breed of Dalmations slowly go extinct like so many other have before them. <br /><br /> <br /><br />The Chatham Hill Ganghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00857303707301591779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-7566707253590154212013-09-25T16:53:20.923+01:002013-09-25T16:53:20.923+01:00A policy well worth pushing and the wording in you...A policy well worth pushing and the wording in your last sentence should apply to all breeds. I guess the insurance aspect is possibly why a lot of breeders do not want to divulge data because they would be excluded from provision. It is a deep and troubling worry about what is going to happen to dogs, the poodle disclosure today is sickening. Labradoodles beware, it is going to be one of the major pitfalls when crossbreeding. Someone had previously stated that in attempt to save on breed by outcrossing imperils the breed it has been crossed with in so far as all of the genes within the new "breed" are compromised healthwise. I absolutely agree that it is now, and the near future (50 years) whereby a lot of care and attention has to be undertaken when breeding dogs and most importantly restraint. Dogs and their owners are about to be subjected to a lot of constraints from international governments mainly because they are easy targets, genuine dog breeders are open and honest and their dogs innocent. A world without the compassion of these owners and the dogs becomes a desert and I personally abhor the very thought of it.Georginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-8914994218997442652013-09-25T06:39:20.578+01:002013-09-25T06:39:20.578+01:00you do know of course that many dogs have hip prob...you do know of course that many dogs have hip problems and joint problems that are not diagnosed by "lameness and that many lame dog have no joint or hip problems.. and I ma not sure what you mean by 'would not lilely make it back home" except to say they would be done away with.. bestuvallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16010527907760825413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-39356430516254606142013-09-24T19:33:52.164+01:002013-09-24T19:33:52.164+01:00Georgina, certainly every presently alive creature...Georgina, certainly every presently alive creature and all species will slide into oblivion; hopefully, however, before the very sun goes out, there will be new lives and new species. :-) And while we have world enough and time, let`s think what we might do to secure as best we can a future for those intelligent, useful and companionable animals which we call dogs.We have here, in this country, a large animal insurance company, which registers health statistics from purebred and mixed-breed dogs; we also have national KC data open to public access. It´s not a bad start. And I do think, that if a group of breeders of a few well-known breeds were to get together and announce their purpose - healthy, level-headed dogs for sale only to knowledgeable buyers - it would attract enough attention for major insurance companies and major veterinary schools and hospitals to want to help. Imagine: "Responsible GSD breeders of Britain, a section of the BRU international group, in cooperation with the Royal School of Veterinary Medicine and the Whatever Animal Insurance, offer for sale this year 15 expected litters. Straight-back, temperament assessed sires and dams, tested free of X,Y and Z, good hips for five generations.You can que up on our shared waiting list of buyers. Don´t bother to phone, unless you understand that a good GSD demands a good owner!" Bodil Carlssonhttp://collievaenner.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-41711252403205735092013-09-23T16:16:21.281+01:002013-09-23T16:16:21.281+01:00Shocking anon 11:51 the poor dog, dreadful way to ...Shocking anon 11:51 the poor dog, dreadful way to treat him. I had responded to Bodil's response but it has been eaten by the gremlins! BuGeorginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-67596401067384777762013-09-23T11:51:13.554+01:002013-09-23T11:51:13.554+01:00Jemima, Bodil, this is an area which desperately n...Jemima, Bodil, this is an area which desperately needs addressing.<br />How do we do it? Only yesterday I had an amygdala hijack when a young, inexperienced handler of a reactive GSD decided the best way to handle his dog's panic attack in the middle of a busy street was to wrap the lead/chain around the poor dog's neck, drag it to the floor and cover it's eyes while it screamed. All the while I was 'happy talking' my dog as we tried to pass by on the other side of the street without distressing the dog. I'm an atheist yet all the while I was literally praying that he was strong enough to restrain his dog.....Being afraid in your own neighbourhood of companion dogs is unacceptable. The Dog Warden isn't interested of course because nobody has YET been hurt....even if a dog is hurt, they are not interested. Why is it that a human being has to get seriously damaged before anything is done?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-30210422898063010862013-09-23T10:29:11.776+01:002013-09-23T10:29:11.776+01:00Bodil thanks for your response. There is an oppo...Bodil thanks for your response. There is an opportunity for a responsible professional body to set up and organise an impartial, free of litigation data base open to breeders, purchasers and researchers. I have always thought that the KC is the obvious body but I am now unsure about the politics within that organisation. The advertising/marketing opportunity for a dog food/pharmaceutical/rescue/health research company is more possible. Especially as they would have manpower/facilities/computers etc etc to set up such a database. The KC could have an input insofar as they could make it a requirement that the cost of a puppy from every litter they register would be donated to the organisation in the form of a "health trust". For a trial, one breed could be selected and run for a period of say 2 years, then audited for results from which it would become an open register for all breeds. But I am a fossil and maybe right off the scale in my expectations in human nature and the real reason why so many people are involved in dogs. The benefit of such a database would be so beneficial for dog breeders and healthier dogs with the caveat that if the genetic information is correct every living being on the planet is sliding into oblivion then any effort is pointless. The only benefit would be that the dogs alive today and to be bred in the immediate future would live a more healthy and fulfilled life.Georginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-18160022802098252542013-09-23T03:17:33.220+01:002013-09-23T03:17:33.220+01:00I think it's wrong to blame and condemn an ent...I think it's wrong to blame and condemn an entire fancy. I'm not referring to any particular registry here, but what portion of any given breed in any given registry is actively being campaigned in its given country? By campaigned, I mean seriously put out with the goal of winning conformation dog shows? I'm guessing it's small, but it's as much a fault of the kennel club as it is the general public for considering these kinds of competitions the be all end all of purebred dogs. Until there's grass roots education that there are many positive reasons to own a purebred and many of the genetic diseases can also be prevented by selecting an alternative breeder who prioritizes health and working ability over appearance and popularity, the dog show fancy is going to be over-run by people willing to pay insane prices for over-bred "champion" pedigrees. Kennel club or no kennel club, if the perception/market weren't there in the first place and alternative breeders were sought out as the more desirable breeders, fewer breeds would likely be in the genetic pickle that they're in today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-59143083803788658642013-09-22T22:01:50.713+01:002013-09-22T22:01:50.713+01:00I've explored it, Bodil. And in some depth. It...I've explored it, Bodil. And in some depth. It's desperately needed. But I'm the wrong person. It needs to come with within, not without. <br /><br />JemimaJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-87211655312303963042013-09-22T17:15:27.184+01:002013-09-22T17:15:27.184+01:00Jemima, why don´t you go ahead and announce a star...Jemima, why don´t you go ahead and announce a start for the BRU, Respectable Breeders United? If someone whose name was known just took that first step... No, I´m not joking. It´s a dull, drizzling, cold and dark early autumn Sunday afternoon here in Scandinavia (which isn´t half the land of glory in terms of dog welfare that some of you hope, alas) and I´ve seen one internet argument too many. Dog behaviour, Cesar Millan. There are too many dogs around in the hands of people who should have kept to gold fish. Yes, with or without the aid of AR zealots, there will be restrictions on the rights to keep large dogs, first of all in the cities. Breeders can do very little about backyard breeding, whether of crossbreeds or registered dogs; but one thing you can do is to get together, agree to breed on health and temperament assessments only; and to sell only to people who already have, or are willing to get, the basic knowledge needed to handle a dog. Particularly a large dog. If such a group got started, many breeders in many countries would join, and many more people like myself would be happy to be supporting members. It would add immensely to the reputation and status of dogs and dog breeders. So Jemima, please...? Georgina? Somebody? Bodil Carlssonhttp://collievaenner.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-70494277056437234772013-09-20T14:58:46.724+01:002013-09-20T14:58:46.724+01:00Evidence, please.Evidence, please.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14389321571689128858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-88409104056478203812013-09-20T14:57:13.236+01:002013-09-20T14:57:13.236+01:00WhatAmILookingAt: "The AKC is not talking abo...WhatAmILookingAt: "The AKC is not talking about the state of the purebred dog,"<br /><br />Yup! If they had been concerned with the state of the purebred dog, they would not be so vulnerable to attack by AR wackos. <br /> <br />I see that as the main point of this post. PR, without real change, is doomed. REPUTATION is doomed if you policies result increasingly more extreme features and increasingly narrow genetic foundations for many many breeds.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14389321571689128858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-71439265781004556882013-09-20T11:55:41.132+01:002013-09-20T11:55:41.132+01:00Eloquently stated anon 10:34. Perhaps Bestuvall i...Eloquently stated anon 10:34. Perhaps Bestuvall is a double bluffer but interestingly "Jan" has not responded to JH's request. Georginanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-42382293578072641512013-09-20T10:34:21.435+01:002013-09-20T10:34:21.435+01:00Interesting how some pedigree dog breeders appear ...Interesting how some pedigree dog breeders appear to be so deep in denial that they wildly fling accusations of blame at the people who actually understand the issues and most importantly, are trying to improve the situation. Lack of accountability and guilt is just so easy to spot in people who resort to wild outbursts on blogs and fail to continue a thread of rational and empirical discussion when challenged.<br /><br />http://www.rspca.org.uk/media/pressreleases/details/-/article/PressRSPCAWarnsThatManyPedigreeDogsAreStillSuffering19Aug13<br /><br />http://www.vethelpdirect.com/vetblog/2013/09/05/pedigree-dogs-exposed-five-years-on-do-dogs-suffer-less/<br /><br />I think that there are some well balanced views with regard to Jemima's work by the people who are involved in the process of improving dogs' lives for the better. The AR rant is a default knee-jerk reaction that is quite frankly getting boring now.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-28582660422882085962013-09-19T22:10:47.505+01:002013-09-19T22:10:47.505+01:00Want to give me a link to examples of this, Jan?
...Want to give me a link to examples of this, Jan?<br /><br />JemimaJemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-24993899838847925972013-09-19T22:09:21.912+01:002013-09-19T22:09:21.912+01:00well the AR' do get some help from those of yo...well the AR' do get some help from those of you here. Jemima in particular. PDE is quoted as gospel in many many AR missives as the absolute in why dog breeders are awful greedy, disgusting and lazy.. when in fact they are not but hey Jemima is the AR's hero because she also perpetuates the myth.bestuvallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16010527907760825413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-24903675293104289952013-09-19T22:03:54.789+01:002013-09-19T22:03:54.789+01:00http://akcdoglovers.com/2013/09/19/akc-community-d...http://akcdoglovers.com/2013/09/19/akc-community-donates-14250-to-secure-newtowns-new-k-9-officer-saint-michael/<br /> a new canine for the Newtown area the place where the children were shot..nah AKC does nothing.. funny I don't see HSUS/ASPCA/PETA industry anywhere here as contributorsbestuvallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16010527907760825413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-53873391765853586862013-09-19T02:40:30.666+01:002013-09-19T02:40:30.666+01:00Yeah right. Because the AKC's and breeders'...Yeah right. Because the AKC's and breeders' complicity in the state of the purebred dogs has no relevance to their reputation. It's purely the fault of the AR movement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-89721938828621079432013-09-18T19:30:50.911+01:002013-09-18T19:30:50.911+01:00Hasn't there been some concerns about the qual...Hasn't there been some concerns about the quality of DNA in older men's semen when they father children? Concerns regarding a higher propensity for genetic mutations due to DNA fragility. Need to find some references....<br /><br />I just wondered if the same applied to dog sires?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-19433705653652650612013-09-18T16:38:45.305+01:002013-09-18T16:38:45.305+01:00SanDiegoDogMa - That is admittedly both common sen...SanDiegoDogMa - That is admittedly both common sense and absolutely brilliant. And, in fact, breeding to older studs occurs quite regularly in dogs bred for work - because longevity has an actual tangible economic value. <br /><br />Admittedly, I still love purebred dogs, and I want to own one, and my latest search for a family member led to an F1 hybrid from a small "backyard breeder". The stud was healthy & vet approved, but still younger and untested by time. However, the mom was a very healthy bitch who at eight years old was having her third and very last litter. <br /><br />I took a chance on this puppy, because this was the only breeder who was actually breeding a dog over five years old, and was willing to let me see the parents and judge the health for myself. For reference: I was looking for a small dog - one that on average will live 15 years, and I couldn't find a breeder willing to show me breeding stock more than 5 years old. <br />seabrooksrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-68905214521126367932013-09-18T14:30:36.529+01:002013-09-18T14:30:36.529+01:00Try Patti Strand. AKC board member since 1995, co...Try Patti Strand. AKC board member since 1995, co-founder of the National Animal Interest Alliance (NAIA), a front group and industry funded lobbying organization for animal commerce. She chaired the report of the AKC's High Volume Breeder Committe Report of 2002 (which blessed the very large scale breeding establishments and their link to petshops). <br /><br />See also the AKC Chairman's report of 2008 . . . which shows how worried the AKC is about loosing registrations (and income) and highlights the importance of keeping the numbers up. The AKC has seen volume breeders and chain store pet sales (eg., Petland) as critical sources of revenue and has gone way out of its way to keep these enterprises on board, eg., through the AKC's Puppy Registration & Inventory Management Extranet (PRIME). <br /><br />http://www.akc.org/about/chairmans_report/2008.cfm?page=9<br />http://www.terrierman.com/prime-AKC-manual.pdf<br /><br />Yah, yah, yah. Now you're going to discount Terrrierman as a reference. If youi're not even willing to reveal your own identity, mr/ms/??? Anonymous, how can you credibly discount sources (eg Dog Press above) with no evidence. Not the terrierman link only points to a download of a document that the AKC has not gone out of its way to make public.<br /><br />I'm no accountant and untangling the AKC Canine Health foundation from the AKC is not simple ...AKC claims credit for its Canine Health foundation. But should note that AKC's contribution to health research is much smaller if you discount the Canine Health Foundation (heavily supported by corporate donations). <br /><br />"any of these look worthy of your hard earned $$.. no thought not.. but you are so concerned.. yeah right.." You, again, show poor reasoning ability. Of all the hundreds of thousands of worthy causes seeking donations, why should I, or anyone, choose a health foundation established by the AKC...given that I, and many others, regard the AKC's concern over dog health with great skepticism. (Btw, I have volunteered to participate in one of the trials funded by the AKC Canine Health Foundation's research program ...a look at tick attractions to dogs being done by the entimology department at the University of Florida.<br /><br />If you're going to offer only snide remarks evidence, please shut up!!!!!<br /><br /><br /> Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14389321571689128858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-73565754085279227702013-09-18T13:47:06.105+01:002013-09-18T13:47:06.105+01:00The AKC is not talking about the state of the pure...The AKC is not talking about the state of the purebred dog, they are talking about its REPUTATION and breeders REPUTATION, which DOES fall squarely to blame on the AR movement, which has made pedigree dogs a shameful thing to have, and breeders who produce them pariahs, spat on, scorned. "Don't breed or buy while shelter pets die" has become the zealous mantra of the AR masses, and its spreading faster than wildfire. YOU dont live in America, YOU dont see it. WhatAmILookingAthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04018706550350738178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-21097440935228174532013-09-18T11:03:14.550+01:002013-09-18T11:03:14.550+01:00http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/17/how...http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/17/how-dogs-teaching-young-offenders<br /><br />A brilliant project which is helping disenfranchised young men rehabilitate back into society using abandoned dogs.<br /><br />Win win.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-78664302526298581522013-09-18T10:58:17.849+01:002013-09-18T10:58:17.849+01:00Anon 05:10
There are tools such as DNA tests which...Anon 05:10<br />There are tools such as DNA tests which can help determine a breed of dog. Perhaps the 'jerks' in animal control may find these sort of tools useful?<br /><br />http://www.wisdompanel.co.uk/<br /><br />Not absolutely definitive of course. But a lttle more objective than taking a guess on the look of the dog and comparing it to a picture I agree.<br /><br />Temperament testing too is helpful in determining the predatory or aggressive nature of a dog, particularly around other dogs and human beings. Sue Sternberg has done a lot of excellent work with Shelter dogs in this regard. <br /><br />Your emotional outburst does nothing to address the issue at hand here. What is the root cause of the problem we are discussing?<br /><br />People.<br /><br />Not dogs. Not breed. Not temperament. <br /><br />People's capability of screwing up dogs - by selectively breeding for crappy physical and temperamental traits and then screwing the animal up by throughly useless handling. A complete lack of behavioural understanding and approach to training doesn't help. And the fact that on the whole, there is very little we can actually do legally to protect dogs from that happening in the first place means it's OK to carry on doing what we have always done? <br /><br />If BSL exists because 'stupid people think stupid things', then tell me, what do YOU think is the solution to the number of Pittie, Bully and predatory type dogs who continue fill the rescue centres because nobody wants them? To carry on doing what has always been done? <br /><br />Sadly, your 'knee jerk PETA' type response to discussing this issue is yet another example of extreme ideologocal thinking (just like PETA, I may add) clouding moral, ethical, common sense-based and empirical discussions aimed at rational approaches to solutions to the continuing problems in society with dog breeding and ownership.<br /><br />I am realistic and pragmatic. That means accepting the cold, harsh truth about situations and facing up to your responsibilities as an adult human being, no matter how difficult or 'unfair' it may appear. <br /><br />BSL is not the solution to the route cause. The solution is education, regulation and better control over breeding practices and ownership of certain types of dogs in society. Having a moral and ethical obligation to the welfare of dogs, regardless of breed, does not make you a PETA fanatic! Neither does participating in an honest and pragmatic discussion on the advantages, disadvantages and practicalities of breeding and owning certain types of breeds as pet dogs over others!<br /><br />Christ.....<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com