tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post2408187722649211719..comments2024-03-20T17:32:35.238+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: Kitchener: cooking up the enemy?Jemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger144125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-57966829966924203422017-06-29T06:48:18.264+01:002017-06-29T06:48:18.264+01:00Kim Kavin's 'The Dog Merchants' is ver...Kim Kavin's 'The Dog Merchants' is very informative about the mindset of large scale dog breeders in America. In a nutshell, they're often family farm owners who've discovered that breeding and selling dogs was more lucrative than sharecropping for agribusiness corporations... and that dogs were easier to wrangle than steers or hogs. They're not physically cruel, but they view the dogs they breed as livestock, pure and simple. Farmers generally don't spend much time worrying about how the livestock feels about their quality of life.<br /><br />https://www.amazon.com/Dog-Merchants-Business-Breeders-Rescuers/dp/1681771403Astrin Ymrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07161302534935273886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-6820441829108270152016-03-08T08:19:29.739+00:002016-03-08T08:19:29.739+00:00One thing missing in this argument is the fact tha...One thing missing in this argument is the fact that with animals deemed property, it actually affords us rights against organizations like PETA and HSUS.<br />Because a dog is property, when one of them decides they don't like how you're treating your dog, they can't just take it, and if they do, there are legal ramifications, such as what happened when PETA stole the chihuahua Maya.<br />There ARE animal rights freaks that will steal your pet if they decide they don't like the way you care for it, even if you are not breaking the law. There is the recent case of the husky stolen from a man with terminal cancer by a neighbor who decided that he wasn't caring for the dog properly, even after animal control visited and determined that everything was fine.. That neighbor actually put the dog down, even though the dog has a medical condition that was being treated when she stole him.<br />Because we have a right to our property, they cannot take our animals without due process. This means if you have your dogs tethered, animal control can't just decide that you're being cruel, and take your property.<br />If your dog is killed by the police, which happens, you have a civil rights case against the department for denying you your property.<br />Dogs as property doesn't mean they are not afforded certain rights as living beings and in fact, that is why we have animal cruelty laws. What it insures, again, is that due process takes place.<br />If you are abusing your animal, they have have a warrant to take your property, they then have to have the courts deny you your property rights, based on the evidence. You have the right to fight them and present your own evidence that shows you are in compliance with the law.<br /><br />Because our animals are legally property, we have certain rights that keeps them in check. This site better explains what the difference between being a guardian and being an owner is legally and why guardianship language is dangerous and problematic.. <br />http://www.defendingdog.com/id29.html<br />HJowever, these are the two most important paragraphs that explains it very well..<br /><br />Unlike pet owners, pet guardians do not own the property that is the subject of the guardianship. At best, a guardian has a limited or temporary possession of the property. The guardianship right is bestowed by the government and can be arbitrarily revoked, meaning your pet can be taken from you without any rhyme or reason. <br /> <br />All property owners, however, enjoy rights, powers, privileges and immunities in the particular thing or things they own. Placerville Fruit Growers’ Association v. Irving. Animals are ethically and legally regarded as property and, as such, our rights as property owners are protected under the Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution.<br /><br />Until otherwise stated, I am a dog OWNER and I will remain such.Labellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06493001429367388513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-52367093017242424942015-12-21T00:02:51.650+00:002015-12-21T00:02:51.650+00:00Yes, the subject of crating.....it's always bo...Yes, the subject of crating.....it's always bound to come up. In my opinion it's the most horribly abused area of dog "care" and ownership in the world and I would'nt be at all upset if the practise were banned for ever.<br /><br />Crating apologists are everywhere they know no social boundries, sphere of dog activity and ownership. Like a cancer it eats into the happiness and welfare of dogs evrywhere. <br /><br />As incomprehensible an act as qualzucht breeding itself.Antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14041212020431214852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-47098441128856791972015-12-20T17:29:57.987+00:002015-12-20T17:29:57.987+00:00S.K.Y.- that sounds made-up about Nathan Winograd....S.K.Y.- that sounds made-up about Nathan Winograd. Have you a source? I have read him saying exactly the opposite. I've read sources from the likes of Peta saying that's what No-Kill means, but they aren't exactly the most believable source on this. <br /><br />Instead the sources from his website I've read say that dogs are often misidentified as 'aggressive' when they could be safely rehomed or may be suffering from medical problems, and that far from encouraging dogs to be 'crated for years', not enough is done on training, rehabilitation, treatment (this is from the 'defining no kill' download from the No Kill Advocacy Centre. He seems to advocate MORE training, MORE careful evaluation, not less. <br />Simbahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14754179758579802451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-53286248750257030422015-12-19T17:48:49.326+00:002015-12-19T17:48:49.326+00:00You in the "developed world" practiced s...You in the "developed world" practiced slavery, from Roman time with chattel slavery, to feudalism and serfdom. British merchants bought slaves from African Arab conquerors and transported white captives from the British Isles and sold them into indentured servitude. <br />"Pretty much equal" as to the debt? That's bullshit. Almost half the debt has amassed in the last seven years....the other half over many past prior decades. The debt is due to liberals on steroids as they had free reign for much of the Obama reign. Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-80218344125497200072015-12-19T14:02:15.843+00:002015-12-19T14:02:15.843+00:00You don't actually listen to what you read , d...You don't actually listen to what you read , do you Liberty Belle you actually struggle with critical thought, when all you have to throw in the debate is that some people eat dogs. <br />A legal criminal offense does qualify as a right. You cannot beat a dog, because the dog has a right not to be beaten. Why are you not allowed to beat a dog? Because like you they feel pain, stress and fear. It is a criminal offense to beat another human, because they have a right not to be beaten.<br />I'm a meat eater, just like a dog and believe me if I was starving and it was me or the dog. I would eat my dog, but I would kill him/her as efficiently as I could, trying to cause the dog as little pain and stress. The dog has a right to be killed with as little suffering as possible. I have no problem with people in other countries eating dogs, but I have a problem when they are kept in such awful conditions and killed in barbaric ways.<br />See Liberty Belle an animal can have rights and you can still eat them. Is it really that hard for you to comprehend? In America humans have rights, but you still love killing them, so I guess it would be hard for you to comprehend that animals have rights, especially as it has only been in recent history that you could comprehend a black person having the same rights as a white person. <br />Blow yourself away replying Liberty Belle, I'm off to enjoy the holidays and I've spent enough time hitting my head against the brick wall with you. Have a lovely holiday!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-2643307864425847212015-12-19T13:39:12.943+00:002015-12-19T13:39:12.943+00:00Liberty Belle what was exactly stated then was'...Liberty Belle what was exactly stated then was'pet store puppies are as healthy as those from any other source, and often healthier.' You try to tell us that pet store puppies from pet stores are 'healthier than any other sources',which is not what was said. The study has to be taken with a piece of salt though until you find out who was funding the research, because so far all other studies found the opposite to this study. AS the insurance companies working with pet stores, make money out of the arrangement, you would have to see all data that supports this claim.Must laugh when I see those supporting pet store pups spouting 'The preeminent study by Cornell University', but none seem to give a link to the study or appear to have any stats or data available from it.<br />Is it possible for you to give us a link to actually read the study and look at its data, as I presume you have done so Liberty Belle??????? <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-8000600357578429212015-12-19T13:13:50.701+00:002015-12-19T13:13:50.701+00:00An animal has the right to welfare, so thus like a...An animal has the right to welfare, so thus like a human animal it is established it has a right and that is a right to welfare.<br />What does not hold water? Could you point us to the papers scientific etc that makes your critical mind favor that animals have no rights. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-44834263558772566582015-12-17T23:33:26.521+00:002015-12-17T23:33:26.521+00:00Oh for heaven's sake.....pearls before swine, ...Oh for heaven's sake.....pearls before swine, but here is one reference to the information. I suggest you contact PIJAC directly for further information. https://www.pijac.org/sites/default/files/ri_-_hb_5117_repeal_pet_care_services_tax_alt.pdf Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-4288007538607664502015-12-17T23:25:50.893+00:002015-12-17T23:25:50.893+00:00Nope, I have examined the idea of "animal rig...Nope, I have examined the idea of "animal rights" critically and find that it just doesn't hold water. Animals don't have rights. As to animal welfare, which most people claim to support while disavowing animal rightism, AW is simply AR light....as many posters here admit as you bandy about both terms interchangably. Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-27211675250754710732015-12-17T23:20:48.368+00:002015-12-17T23:20:48.368+00:00And with your hateful rant, you continue to displa...And with your hateful rant, you continue to display your true colors. The malicious urges are all yours, River P. I feel sorry for you. Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-40130116506158087582015-12-17T23:16:12.645+00:002015-12-17T23:16:12.645+00:00Nope, not even a breeder, "anonymous" mu...Nope, not even a breeder, "anonymous" much less a commercial one, although so what if I were? Animals don't have rights. Simply because there are now legal criminal offenses doesn't change that fact. Or do you believe your personal view of deference to pets should be imposed on countries where dogs are dinner? http://time4dogs.blogspot.com/2012/01/why-animals-dont-have-rights.htmlLiberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-64987496601735603082015-12-14T11:26:32.312+00:002015-12-14T11:26:32.312+00:00Ark at you Trish with your hate and fear speech. D...Ark at you Trish with your hate and fear speech. Duh, purebreeds can be made and unmade. They are just something made up by humans. The whole purebreed ideology is 'conquer and divide', especially when used against humans. <br />They will always still be pure dogs though, whatever the dogs parents looked like.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-13926766485861211432015-12-14T10:25:12.630+00:002015-12-14T10:25:12.630+00:00Trish, that is not what Jemima and her cohorts wan...Trish, that is not what Jemima and her cohorts want, but it is what you want people to believe. It is about stopping exaggerations being bred in to dogs that cause them to suffer and to stop having such small closed off gene pools that the cause so much risk off inherited disorders. <br />No one seemed to mind it when the KC got rid of a whole load of Spaniel breeds and made one breed the Cocker Spaniel and many breeds have dead a death and are dying a death under the so called protection of the KC and AKC. HOw can you be united with people who think pure breeding is the be all and end of it. I started cross breeding several years ago, to improve the really poor health in a pure breed I have been involved with for over 30 years. I was open about it and why I had chosen to do it and I was then ostracized from the breed club. My dogs look like the breed, talk like the breed, walk like the breed. They are healthier, less exaggerated and more functional than the breed. My dogs by the breed club are referred to as mutts when discussed by them, so go and sling your hook with the 'United we stand, decided we fall' fear building bullshit.<br />John is not the problem here, you are. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-33515778288320958622015-12-14T01:33:15.214+00:002015-12-14T01:33:15.214+00:00John, you are the problem. Ever heard the saying &...John, you are the problem. Ever heard the saying "United we stand divided we fall"??? They are implementing a divide and conquer tactic and you are falling for it hook line & sinker. Even the people on here including Jemima are falling for it. Then again Jemima & cohorts want to see all purebred dogs mixed bred into oblivion, no more purebred dogs. No more Grey Hounds, no more Dachshunds, no more Poodles, no Pharaoh Hounds, no Afghan Hounds, no whatever Pure breed.Trishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00650864302229431099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-42481735009595143092015-12-13T13:43:26.395+00:002015-12-13T13:43:26.395+00:00I can't find anything Liberty Belle from the s...I can't find anything Liberty Belle from the source you tell us about lower premiums for pet store pups. Could you give the full web page address /link.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-16319345764192051332015-12-13T03:07:20.806+00:002015-12-13T03:07:20.806+00:00IMO zoos are sad horrible places the world over. I...IMO zoos are sad horrible places the world over. If true I can only commend HSUS in this respect. To me the little value they do have simply doesn't offset the horrific confinment the animals are subjected to. From the so called best of them to the worst, zoos, ocean parks should be relagated to the dustbin of history.<br /><br />Zoos are not the way children primarily should learn about the natural world. Even a walk through any decent city park is more soundly educational.<br /><br />Antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14041212020431214852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-27927013242976490642015-12-12T23:47:05.642+00:002015-12-12T23:47:05.642+00:00Funny that Jung agrees with Freud that a person’s ...Funny that Jung agrees with Freud that a person’s past and childhood experiences determined future behaviour. The same has been found in researching dogs behaviour. Socialization is not the sole denominator of temperament I would agree, but that does not make it right to rear pups with very little socialization, as you have agreed this is the case and makes it harder for them to adapt to a home life and some Liberty Belle never do never adapt, but I suppose that is okay if you can detach yourself and keep saying, "They are just property, thus they have no rights." Very philosophical of you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-65110219175199729682015-12-12T22:21:26.118+00:002015-12-12T22:21:26.118+00:00'maybe I'm just a free thinker who doesn&#...'maybe I'm just a free thinker who doesn't sign on to anyone's bandwagon unconditionally.'Don't sound like a very free thinker, when you can not even comprehend that another animal species other than yourself can have rights. I would think that, that sounds more like the ramblings of a closed mind with blinkers on. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-38040389204749962812015-12-12T21:39:41.446+00:002015-12-12T21:39:41.446+00:00Anonymous 21:56, you happily euthanize humans in t...Anonymous 21:56, you happily euthanize humans in the USA and call it the death penalty. Law has no problem in the USA making the choice to kill humans that are not classified as property, which means you don't have to own or something in the eyes of the law to kill. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-75957991148095290702015-12-12T19:40:11.632+00:002015-12-12T19:40:11.632+00:00So Liberty Belle you admit that pet store pups are...So Liberty Belle you admit that pet store pups are fearful and your story about your Mum's dog you left two important individuals out of the story the parents of your Mum's dog. How fearful do you think their life was?<br />Health is not just a physical thing. So you think it is okay to rear pups that are fearful and under socialized, because genetically if you use the breeds that can cope with a bad start in life, if you love them lots they will be okay in the end. <br />Could you enlighten in to why you think CBE and Pet stores have a place in society and what is exactly the valuable service they provide. All I can think is cheap fearful puppies and as for the parents? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-10793285760854997162015-12-12T19:28:06.166+00:002015-12-12T19:28:06.166+00:00That Sweden study though Liberty Belle disected an...That Sweden study though Liberty Belle disected and looked at claims etc, but you have no research, just the fact that pet shop pups get offered lower insurance. Nothing to back your claim that pet store pups are healthier than any other source, because you are claiming any other source, so you would have to then break down all the other sources and claims made to find out if your claim is true.<br /> Insurance premiums for dogs are not just done on health risk, but also price and type of a dog, aggressive type breeds will push premiums up because of higher risk for public liability.<br />If I went and bought a Pit Bull from a top show breeder and paid a couple thousand dollars for this dog. I would expect to pay a higher premium for its insurance than someone who bought a toy breed pup for a couple hundred dollars from a pet store. Firstly my dog would have a higher cost to replace and being a higher risk dog for aggression, its public liability would be higher risk. A higher premium is not an automatic indicator that a dog is less healthy. <br />All your stat could be reflecting for pet store pups and insuring them against the whole of the rest of the puppy breeding and selling population is that pet stores sell lower cost pups that they predominantly sell toy/small breeds that are low/non aggressive breeds and are more likely to have a four week free insurance that insurance companies offer to volume breeders or sellers of pups that fives an automatic discount if you carry the insurance on. Insurance companies know that with pets, the first company you insure your pup with will most likely be the one you stay with for the life of the dog, so in the long run they will make up the risk of lower of the first year of insurance.. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-52580032555115981722015-12-12T15:54:46.436+00:002015-12-12T15:54:46.436+00:00So I take it that you have no more prove than spec...So I take it that you have no more prove than special offers made to pet store pups if you carry on with the insurance the pup leaves the store with Liberty Belle and yet again you deflect. We are not talking about studies in Sweden about crossbreeds, we are talking about you claiming that,'Dogs store puppies have proven to be healthier than dogs obtained from any other source' Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-42776240873568881082015-12-12T15:51:22.976+00:002015-12-12T15:51:22.976+00:00Jemima, the insurance is a deal from the insurance...Jemima, the insurance is a deal from the insurance companies to reel the pups in and as pet stores in the USA are high volume sellers it gets them all but a captive market. It is an introductory offer and the premiums after the first year I suspect then are risen to the rest of the market. I get this deal in the UK with my et insurers. I only breed one or two litters a year. If they take the insurance on from the one I started on the pup for 4 weeks free insurance, they get a discount. It is a misleading stat.<br />Liberty Belle they also have to deal with all complaints and they cover vast areas and I suspect as all things there is more time spent on paper work. <br />So you are taking one example of a dog to base an opinion on, that commercial breeding of dogs is a good thing. LOLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-75498160741417716342015-12-12T09:17:00.326+00:002015-12-12T09:17:00.326+00:00"No insurance company will lower rates on a g..."No insurance company will lower rates on a group that is higher risk. That's just basic business sense." Yes, I agree with this. But the claim that pet store puppies are so much healthier than puppies from other sources that DVM/VPI dropped its insurance premiums by over 22% sounds so unlikely, I am checking it at source and will report back. The info is no longer on the PIJAC website that I can find, by the way - and if it were true you'd expect it to be. But let's see what I can get confirmed.Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.com