tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post1109016333640216652..comments2024-03-20T17:32:35.238+00:00Comments on Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: Well done the Cavalier ClubsJemima Harrisonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-26776122362604387482020-04-12T05:54:28.443+01:002020-04-12T05:54:28.443+01:00Are you people kidding me ??? I have a top pedigre...Are you people kidding me ??? I have a top pedigreed bitch in Australia who has a English stud line. She has both mitral valve disease & EFS. Bless her little heart, she is a much loved family member & pet. Get you're dammed act together in terms of breeding to save both beloved dog & owner from the expense & misery of dealing with the inherit, cruel disorders !!!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05597290015717047397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-33301813748288923532013-03-30T17:37:56.239+00:002013-03-30T17:37:56.239+00:00Hi anon 10:15 I deserved a slap!! Have you read t...Hi anon 10:15 I deserved a slap!! Have you read the article that is going to be printed in tomorrows Sunday Express. Written by Dogs Today Magazine re Dangerous Dogs. It is very well written and informative. I learned about it because it popped up on my facebook. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-47617373155021189482013-03-30T10:15:51.075+00:002013-03-30T10:15:51.075+00:00Anon 9:40......there was of course a hint of sarca...Anon 9:40......there was of course a hint of sarcasm in there aimed at those who care more about their winning tickets and those ££££££ than the health and well being of mans best friend. I say, thank goodness more people are highlighting the issues maybe then those who should be making a difference will extract themselves from their proverbials. Thanks for the apology though, much respect for those willing to say "oops got that one wrong". You also enjoy your chocolatty weekend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-29915047311341863102013-03-30T09:58:45.066+00:002013-03-30T09:58:45.066+00:00Yes, please don't just let her get away with i...Yes, please don't just let her get away with it because she has a bunch of rosettes. They mean nothing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-29739779209847207012013-03-30T09:40:13.395+00:002013-03-30T09:40:13.395+00:00Hi Anon 23:48 yes I have now got indigestion, plea...Hi Anon 23:48 yes I have now got indigestion, please accept my apologies. Because of the way you had written your blog it was ambiguous (like mine was about PDE/CA and Jemima pointed it out). Because your use of words were a bit inflammatory I thought you were aggressive against this subject whereas you were passive in favour. Have a good weekend, don't eat too many Easter eggs.. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-26938266346224379712013-03-29T19:23:35.874+00:002013-03-29T19:23:35.874+00:00Hi Jemima, you quite correct, sorry. Reading my b...Hi Jemima, you quite correct, sorry. Reading my blog again I can see it would be read that way. But at the end of the day both PDE and CA are working towards a healthier pedigree dog for future generations to enjoy. For the best outcome everyone needs to pull together otherwise any attempts as small individual pockets will not work, but united the impact would be so beneficial for the pedigree dog. For all of us our common ground is the love of our dogs, whatever jacket they are wearing, and we should try and keep this in mind as the goal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-46556786823380694432013-03-29T19:04:25.552+00:002013-03-29T19:04:25.552+00:00And the KC and the breed clubs and anyone who will...And the KC and the breed clubs and anyone who will listen, make the woman feel so uncomfortable it will not be only us who despise her, she will come to despise herself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-40976580275747220532013-03-29T17:31:07.936+00:002013-03-29T17:31:07.936+00:00I would really love to see the KC include all resu...I would really love to see the KC include all results from the EF CC/DE DNA tests in their registration system and for all puppy registrations to be conditional on the proven health of the parent dogs, but I suspect that will take years of negotiation.<br /><br />In the meantime as Anonymous 28 March 12:10 points out there is not yet an official Kennel Club recognised scheme for either DNA test.<br /><br />I checked on the KC website. There is no mention of DE/CC or EFS or the DNA tests tests on the Cavalier information pages. So buyers and non-club breeders will have no idea that these are health problems within the breed or that a test exists.<br /><br />So why have the cavalier clubs not responded positively to the invitation to add the DNA tests to the ABS scheme? Do they think that if they don't answer the KC will be forced into giving in to their request?<br /><br />Health tests should not be used as bargaining tools by breeders or the Kennel Club. Where do the dogs and the unwary people that seek advice from the KC website come into this? These tests have been available for two years. Why not add them to the ABS while negotiations continue? <br /><br />Anonymous 28 March 12:10 You are mistaken, CM ( Chiari Malformation ) is a malformation of the skull, leading to a mismatch between the amount of brain tissue and the space available for it. Nearly every cavalier has this crushing of the brain. SM( Syringomyelia )is the pocket of fluid within the spinal cord that progressively destroys nerve tissue. Studies show 70% of cavaliers will have SM by the time they are 6 years old. <br /><br />Can you call a dog with SM healthy? They may appear happy, but studies suggest that many owners are not very good at perceiving the signs of discomfort in their dogs.<br /><br />Jemima's last remark was not polite and I felt indignant when reading it, but I am reluctantly forced to admit there is a lot of truth in what she writes. <br /><br />I accept I am an idiot to be still trying to breed healthier cavaliers as I do now think the health problems in cavaliers will destroy the breed. <br />There are so few cavalier breeders that are breeding without compromising on correct health testing, far too few to compensate for those that don't care enough to try.<br /><br />I would not want to deny families the pleasure of owning cavaliers, I have enjoyed having these fantastic little dogs in my life for over thirty years, but it is the dogs that are born to suffer a lifetime of neuropathic pain and it is their welfare that should be the main concern. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Margaret Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-47487402300311135212013-03-29T14:31:10.023+00:002013-03-29T14:31:10.023+00:00I would really love to see the KC include all resu...I would really love to see the KC include all results from the EF CC/DE DNA tests in their registration system and for all puppy registrations to be conditional on the proven health of the parent dogs, but I suspect that will take years of negotiation.<br /><br />In the meantime as Anonymous 28 March 12:10 points out there is not yet an official Kennel Club recognised scheme for either DNA test.<br /><br />I checked on the KC website. There is no mention of DE/CC or EFS or the DNA tests tests on the Cavalier information pages. So buyers and non-club breeders will have no idea that these are health problems within the breed or that a test exists.<br /><br />So why have the cavalier clubs not responded positively to the invitation to add the DNA tests to the ABS scheme? Do they think that if they don't answer the KC will be forced into giving in to their request?<br /><br />Health tests should not be used as bargaining tools by breeders or the Kennel Club. Where do the dogs and the unwary people that seek advice from the KC website come into this? These tests have been available for two years. Why not add them to the ABS while negotiations continue? <br /><br />Anonymous 28 March 12:10 You are mistaken, CM ( Chiari Malformation ) is a malformation of the skull, leading to a mismatch between the amount of brain tissue and the space available for it. Nearly every cavalier has this crushing of the brain. SM( Syringomyelia )is the pocket of fluid within the spinal cord that progressively destroys nerve tissue. Studies show 70% of cavaliers will have SM by the time they are 6 years old. Can you call a dog with SM healthy? They may appear happy, but studies suggest that many owners are not very good at perceiving the signs of discomfort in their dogs.<br /><br />Jemima's last remark was not polite and I felt indignant when reading it, but I am reluctantly forced to admit there is a lot of truth in what she writes. <br /><br />I accept I am an idiot to be still trying to breed healthier cavaliers as I do now think the health problems in cavaliers will destroy the breed. <br />There are so few cavalier breeders that are breeding without compromising on correct health testing, far too few to compensate for those that don't care enough to try.<br /> <br />I would not want to deny thousands of families the pleasure of owning cavaliers, but it is the dogs that are born to suffer a lifetime of neuropathic pain and it is their welfare that should be the main concern. <br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br />As for your final comment in damning our breed, there are thousands of Happy Healthy Cavaliers all leading perfectly happy normal lives. Yes many may have an abnormality in their spine (CM) but live perfectly happy normal lives with absolutely no discomfort. Hopefully this will be bred out, but not by the Cavalier Club whose members have tested less than 20 dogs as part of the BVA scheme. It will be breeders like Mr Foote who will make a difference, and certainly not you whom would rather see the whole breed die out denying thousands of families the pleasure of our fantastic breed<br /><br />Margaret Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-22552894580373671002013-03-29T13:19:52.040+00:002013-03-29T13:19:52.040+00:00I like Alan. He seems fairly well informed and exp...I like Alan. He seems fairly well informed and experienced about dogs. Good or him for addressing the welfare issues. He also gave Cesar Millan a good grilling about his barbaric 'training' and behavioural adjustment methods last year. About time too.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-38567388813112264542013-03-29T13:16:42.138+00:002013-03-29T13:16:42.138+00:00Report her to the RSPCA? Report her to the RSPCA? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-2765090986903053642013-03-29T13:15:43.385+00:002013-03-29T13:15:43.385+00:00Yikes! Anger at veterinary checks per se? Or anger...Yikes! Anger at veterinary checks per se? Or anger that the vet checks are not rigorous enough?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-36976568483279586212013-03-29T10:19:23.017+00:002013-03-29T10:19:23.017+00:00I suppose it depends on your definition of a puppy...I suppose it depends on your definition of a puppyfarmer. For some people the line seems to be wether you show or not.<br /><br />We rescued a dog from a top show breeder who had been kept in filthy conditions and had terrible health problems. But no one would hear a word against her as she had won lots of lovely rossettes.<br /><br /> <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-55453888090054951832013-03-29T10:14:01.093+00:002013-03-29T10:14:01.093+00:00watching my last 4 cavaliers die from heart failur...watching my last 4 cavaliers die from heart failure at under 10 years of age wasn't really a pleasure.<br /><br />There are other lovely breeds that don't carry the worry of SM & MVD. Please dont be so arrogant to believe that cavaliers are so fantastic that the health problems are worth it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-34163680140814703032013-03-29T00:19:04.167+00:002013-03-29T00:19:04.167+00:00Um, I don't think the Canine Alliance was form...Um, I don't think the Canine Alliance was formed in recognition of the problems highlighted in PDE... It was formed primarily out of anger at the vet tests introduced at Crufts last year. <br /><br />Jemima<br />Jemima Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05092892697145388048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-68762525462652611642013-03-28T23:54:22.000+00:002013-03-28T23:54:22.000+00:00Really? I just Googled that and got Champdogs but ...Really? I just Googled that and got Champdogs but pets4homes didn't turn up until the third page. The other top results were cavaliertalk, thecavalierclub (though having seen some of their reps on the original PDE program hardly made them seem remotely pleasant), cavaliercampaign and cavalierhealth. That being said dependent on what you do with your Google ID, internet cache, cookies and history Google results can be tailored to the things you look at so individual results could easily vary.<br /><br />I've actually tried recently to find a good cavalier breeder and some of the East of England ones seemed promising (though I'll fully admit that we've not yet met with them to see certificates so promising may turn out to be disheartening). http://carolus.co.uk/ these people seemed very good though, they have MRI results on their website and promote The Companion Cavalier Club? To be honest though even the best breeders of cavaliers leave me feeling anxious because of how hard it is to trust anyone who might have an agenda in the breeding world. I love the cavalier breed but in spite of desperately wanting one and having done a ton of research on their various ailments and how to screen for them I'm still terrified that I'll miss something and will suffer heartbreak (as well as carry on promoting the demand for a breed that has problems). <br /><br />Sad how much something like looking for a puppy can increase the cynicism you feel towards your fellow man :(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-40985121814319026122013-03-28T23:48:10.909+00:002013-03-28T23:48:10.909+00:00Anon 20:26 did you even bother to view the article...Anon 20:26 did you even bother to view the article before spouting your foul mouth off I wonder??? Humble pie anyone?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-59545099439488823512013-03-28T22:32:02.700+00:002013-03-28T22:32:02.700+00:00Anonymous 28 March 2013 18:22
"If you conta...Anonymous 28 March 2013 18:22 <br /><br />"If you contact the Cavalier Club co-ordinator in East Anglia you may have some luck. Some of the breeders scans have a long history and do show that there are lower-than-average incidences of syringomyelia. Around Cambridgeshire in particular. <br /><br />Really? I don't think so. This sounds like the same misinformation that breeders have been putting out for years. If they only put as much effort into their breeding practices.<br /><br />I do know a couple of responsible hobby breeders in Cambridgeshire but on the whole the county is best known for vehement non-scanners.<br /><br />I imagine that is why the co-ordinator in East Anglia has never yet been able to direct the puppy buyers I know to breeders that can back up their health testing claims with valid certificates?<br /><br />I would be very interested to know how you are defining 'lower-than- average incidence' and even more interested in the age of the cavaliers when scanned? <br /><br />Margaret Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-86107702793134352302013-03-28T22:06:54.422+00:002013-03-28T22:06:54.422+00:00Anonymous 28 March 2013 17:57
"I would link ...Anonymous 28 March 2013 17:57<br /><br />"I would link to several breeders who maintain these standards and dogs but I don't feel it's fair to do so without their consent. Googling "cavalier breeders heart sm de/cc checks" might get you further worthwhile information."<br /><br />Well googling those words got me to Pets4you.com, I presume you don't mean there, and Champdogs. Many of the puppy buyers that come to me have known enough to check out the breeders on Champdogs properly, not taking the 'Health Tested' claim at face value.<br /><br />Shame that the very few breeders that say they have MRI'd some of their bitches so often take them to untested dogs. <br /> <br />Both parents should be tested, according to the breeding guidelines, to minimise the risk to the puppies <br /><br /><br />Margaret Carternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-3939209423425761802013-03-28T20:26:48.532+00:002013-03-28T20:26:48.532+00:00Whoever you are anon 15:50 you have a fowl mouth a...Whoever you are anon 15:50 you have a fowl mouth and you should be ashamed of yourself. PDE is a serious attempt to address health issues, not make unintelligent remarks. If you have an opinion on how health issues within pedigree dogs can be improved everyone would be pleased to hear from you, I'm sure. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-51189188045394317272013-03-28T18:24:45.757+00:002013-03-28T18:24:45.757+00:00"Maybe puppy farmers have unwittingly created..."Maybe puppy farmers have unwittingly created a healthy Cavalier"<br /><br />Please, PLEASE be careful with comments like this. Whether puppies are healthy or not is not the entire point with whether or not we should buy from farms. When they are shoved in crates and carried across the country from their birthplace (so often Wales...) to wherever they're being sold and they are too young to leave their mothers, who are still being kept in appalling, filthy conditions, it doesn't matter if they turn out alright. Not supporting puppy farms is about trying to stop cruelty. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-64151567984379121322013-03-28T18:22:01.589+00:002013-03-28T18:22:01.589+00:00If you contact the Cavalier Club co-ordinator in E...If you contact the Cavalier Club co-ordinator in East Anglia you may have some luck. Some of the breeders scans have a long history and do show that there are lower-than-average incidences of syringomyelia. Around Cambridgeshire in particular. <br /><br />It is worth checking multiple times - just because one wasn't on a list at one point doesn't mean they won't be in the future. Another sign that many of these people are trying to be responsible is that they don't breed for litters as often as possible. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-52197982233743570182013-03-28T17:57:55.665+00:002013-03-28T17:57:55.665+00:00I'd happily support Mary's conviction that...I'd happily support Mary's conviction that there are show lines with a lower than average incidence of syringomyelia; there are, and there are show lines with NO incidence of syringomyelia, as well as lines that have invested huge amounts of time in breeding dogs who reach the age of ten and are still heart tested clear. I would link to several breeders who maintain these standards and dogs but I don't feel it's fair to do so without their consent. Googling "cavalier breeders heart sm de/cc checks" might get you further worthwhile information.<br /><br />The Cavalier is a breed developed mainly as a companion, and it is the companion that is still worth trying to save, rather than tossing it aside and saying "this one's broke, Cap'n!" Responsible breeders are out there, and they are MRI scanning, they are having their Cavs inspected by cardiologists, they are DNA screening, they are holding on to past generations to continue to monitor their progress and ensure that future generations are safeguarded against the problems that have arisen in the breed. <br /><br />I find there is a discomforting parallel between dogs and humans here. Should we stop humans breeding because there is a history of arthritis, cancer, heart disease, Down's Syndrome, mental illness in their lines? Should we carefully screen to assess the potential risk to the offspring? Or should we only allow the absolute healthiest, clearest lines among us to pass on their genes to ensure the healthy development of our own species? <br /><br />Committed dog breeders apply these eugenics standards to their animals, not because they want to make money or have bragging rights, but because they want to continue the breed they have fallen in love with, and they want to make sure that they minimise, if not rule out completely, the suffering the animal may have to endure in the future. They are more devoted to the health and welfare of their dogs than many humans are to their children. Dismissing the breed entirely as a "bad lot" is a blanket that shows no interest in developing healthier offspring that can continue the good traits of the breed. And when we're done dismissing the Cavalier, there will just be another dog, and a dog after that, and a dog after that, until we have dismissed all pedigree dogs as unsalvageable because we can't see that we could save them with the right approach to breeding standards and healthy eugenics programs. <br /><br />The KC Assured Breeders Scheme is a step in the right direction in helping to prevent health problems with future irresponsible breeders, but the KC brand of health isn't enough on its own for anyone who seriously wants to maintain a healthy future for a breed. If that is the only criteria you'll look at then I'd say you're not committed. Seeing MRI scan results, cardiologist reports, DNA checks and of course the parents and grandparents of the litter is a much safer way of choosing your potential companion. <br /><br />Finally, education is so important in ALL dog breeding. When someone goes out to buy a puppy, they are unarmed and uneducated, they might stop by their nearest pet shop or puppy farm. They might choose a cavalier, pug or Labrador based on its smoochy cuteness and nothing else. When their dogs fits, suffocates or dies unexpectedly they won't know why. And that is where we have all failed; whether you're on the side of saving breeds with problems or the side of dismissing them, if people still go to puppy farms and purchase sickly mutts, we have failed. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-10630865270336864792013-03-28T16:36:23.400+00:002013-03-28T16:36:23.400+00:00Hi Anon 12:13, I'm not sure that Mr Ogden sell...Hi Anon 12:13, I'm not sure that Mr Ogden selling Fred West's (and I hope you don't support his destruction of all of those children) private documents to the Sun newspaper is relevant to the shambolic state of pedigree dogs. (I don't know if this is fact). PDE highlighted on a television programme, the massive health issues that are occurring in pedigree dogs. Consequently Canine Alliance has been formed and motivated itself to try and address the issues highlighted. <br />Mr Ogden gave some considered sound advice, keeping the topic on line and was confident about the statements he expressed. (I don't know if your statement that he was banned by the legal profession is true - I will ask him and refer him to your blog). Whether the KC are really worried by Mr Ogden is irrelevant too, if that is what you mean. However, the points he raised are what should make the KC worried if the misinformation in the show schedules is incorrect. I did explain that I may have understood and assume from your comment that you have listened to the meeting as detailed above? <br />Bringing the problem of health issues that are plaguing pedigree dogs presently, down to picking on one person's name is unnecessary and is a pathetic attempt to devalue other people's efforts of trying to help. It is very disingenuous of you. Perhaps you are one of the breeders who are churning out "sick" puppies and don't want your income stream interrupted and will stop at nothing to keep going for as long as possible, maybe to the point when you sell your last puppy of your chosen breed because all of the rest of them have died out?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1183957703077342201.post-2615761452857454862013-03-28T15:50:53.633+00:002013-03-28T15:50:53.633+00:00Anybody watch Alan Titchmarsh this afternoon, he h...Anybody watch Alan Titchmarsh this afternoon, he had a piece on his show regarding the health and welfare issues of some pedigree dogs due to years of inbreeding and breeding for looks his guests were the pug, the cavalier and the sharpei!!! For those with their heads still up their backsides is he wrong as well? spose he also requires a good bashing for trying to do the right thing for dogs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com